Lucy Letby ( To understand)

[PassingStranger]

What made her kill these babies. Been in the news again today.

It's hard to understand?
Presume as she is in prison and not a hospital, she is not mentally ill?

Will anyone try to find out, I guess if people don't admit they are guilty it's hard too.

Instead of people saying give me 5 mins in a cell with her, surely it's better to stop this happening or maybe it's not possible?
Why does she want to be one of the most hated women in the universe and not give a shit about the babies families and even her own parents?

So much better to be known for doing something nice and have people like you?
AIBU to wonder why she took this road in life?

Good

You merely avoided the question.

Absolutely . . . the baby's mother's personal impact statement was heartbreaking

Even though they have had other children since, it's obvious that the loss of their first baby has caused, and will forever cause, devastation and heartbreak

• "killed”*

Why the inverted commas?

Your disrespect to everyone involved in this case is appalling.

@Mirabai

Consider what, if LL “killed” 7 of the 15 babies, killed the other 8.

What period were 15 babies killed in?

Doctors have an obligation to go to the CDOP. Are you implying that Jayaram put concerns about his career ahead of child deaths?

Jayaram and Brearey’s careers was already at risk over the deaths as it happens.

Management made the point that there was no evidence for the accusations against LL. And there still is not. She has been convicted on the basis of claims and opinions not any actual hard evidence.

Lol, no hard evidence when the trial lasted TEN months and included mountains of evidence that was very damning. But yeah sure, you know best.

No, dear.

I said exactly what I think.

She wasn't convicted of killing all of them, that is all.

That's the only miscarriage of justice in this case

And you still ..... Pages and pages later, have not responded re. the timing of the murders. The timing means they were murders, so if LL didn't commit them, who did, pray?

Has someone else been missed who was on shift for them all, has crazed notes in their home about being "evil", doing "this", why they "killed them", and half a metric tonne of handover medical notes in their home about those babies that shouldn't have been there. Someone else who was put on admin or went on holiday, which caused a cessation of deaths.and whose return heralded the resumption of the deaths. Who are they, please let us know?

Also no response the why her barrister didn't rip apart the sketchy evidence that yourself and the other "interesting" poster here say you could so easily rip apart.

What a terrible pity you two weren't the defence team eh. You'd have done so much that experienced legal professionals and the police didn't do. They're all corrupt and incompetent apparently, all of them.

You know the answer to this as you’ve followed the case?

Of course it would have been ideal if they went to the police when they first had suspicions of LL.

It would be easy for me to say the doctors should have ignored all possible impact on themselves but I'm not a doctor, I don't know that the repercussions about that would have been, whether that would have risked them not being able to do the job they love or to be able to care for babies anymore. It goes way beyond a career, it's a vocation for many.

Management changed their mind though didn't they, whe they called the police in.

There were other babies who died on the neonatal ward as you would expect on a ward with very premature babies. Those were explained deaths. The ones that LL has been convicted of murdering were not explained deaths at all and some of them and the attempted murders were very clearly deliberate. You may not like that a young nice looking woman is capable of that behaviour but she clearly is. The fact that there were other deaths doesn’t invalidate the fact that she was on shift for ALL the unexplained ones. All of them. Nobody else was even close to that. Even if you wanted to add in any other deaths (even though they were not unexplained) you would find that her presence will stick out like a sore thumb. Plus all the many many other actions she took that cumulatively point to her guilt.

Management made the point that there was no evidence for the accusations against LL.

No, they did not.

They referred the "situation" to two investigative bodies.

They then failed to follow through on the recommendations of the two investigating bodies' reports.

When the deaths continued, they eventually ...... Very eventually referred it to the police.

They were forced into all three investigations, they tried to avoid them.

I'm aware of the charges and which she was found guilty of and which ones the jury couldn't agree a verdict on.

I'm just not sure if you're saying there were 15 deaths between June 2015 to July 2016?

Why are you always so rude and aggressive?

There are PLENTY of people who think this conviction is unsafe.

Stop trying to constantly imply that you are right and we are all wrong.

NO-ONE can know for sure! Only LL herself

She wasn’t charged with murdering them all is the point.

No idea what post you’re referring to regarding the timing. Why the defence strategy was poor will be a question for years to come.

The police investigated a total of15 deaths and 6 non-fatal collapses that occurred between June 2015 and 2016.

Lucy was charged with 7. That leaves 8 to be explained - technically a second cluster. The typical death rate for the unit was around 2-3 per year.

They were not explained deaths at all - and the ones that she was accused of all had autopsies and nothing was found.

the doctors had an obligation to take ALL unexpected deaths to the CDRB not to check if there was a murder but to Learn. To get others opinions. To see if they missed anything. They failed to do that. That should have happened with all the deaths and it didn’t.

They did make that point directly to the doctors and the a couple of them were required to apologise to LL. You may be confusing the management - ie the managers of that particular unit - with the board.

It was the board that brought in the RCPCH. I’m not sure which second “investigating body” you’re referring to - can you give the name?

As far as we know the RCPCH’s report that the unit did not have the resources or the staff to run a Level 2 unit was heeded, but by that time the unit had already been downgraded by the board.

The court of appeal doesn’t think her conviction is unsafe which is all that matters

They did make that point directly to the doctors and the a couple of them were required to apologise to LL

And what?

These are the same people who've left/been dismissed/will be (hopefully) required to explain their actions in an enquiry. They were incompetent and their incompetence caused deaths.

They were more concerned with rug sweeping and reputation and convenience than protecting patients'lives.

The very kindest thing that can be said about them was that the may initially have mistakenly thought that it was a case of bullying.

But it's hard to say about the other 8 cases. We don't have the details about them do we? Only the police / CPS do.

2-3 baby deaths per year were to be expected.

Do you mean explained or expected/unexpected, natural/unnatural? Explained doesn’t mean anything.

The deaths were not reported as unexpected at the time. The post mortems confirmed natural causes of death. The deaths were billed as unexpected later on. If they had been unexpected/suspicious at the time doctors could have gone to a the CDOP and requested forensic autopsies.

I have no interest in LL’s appearance, and when I started following the trial I assumed I there would be considerable evidence against her.

If she is guilty. And I'm not fully convinced she is as I really can't wrap my head around it. It would be such an interesting case for a psychologist. There again if she is guilty and maintains her innocence, it's not likely she'd ever tell the truth so I guess there'd be little to find out.

There are PLENTY of people who think this conviction is unsafe.

There are plenty of conspiracy theorists, Trump voters, cult members too.

Who is is leading the campaign to prove a miscarriage of justice?
Which qualified, reputable person?
Who's hanging their reputation on proving a miscarriage of justice?

Well the police, CPS, and jury who sat through months of it are so .....

Maybe have a little less faith in your own judgement and omnipotence.