Lucy Letby ( To understand)

[PassingStranger]

What made her kill these babies. Been in the news again today.

It's hard to understand?
Presume as she is in prison and not a hospital, she is not mentally ill?

Will anyone try to find out, I guess if people don't admit they are guilty it's hard too.

Instead of people saying give me 5 mins in a cell with her, surely it's better to stop this happening or maybe it's not possible?
Why does she want to be one of the most hated women in the universe and not give a shit about the babies families and even her own parents?

So much better to be known for doing something nice and have people like you?
AIBU to wonder why she took this road in life?

I suspect that it was partly to create drama that would bring her some attention from the doctor she had a crush on. They would be together in the same room and that might have been enough for her - just to see him and talk to him.
It's so hard to believe that she would actually harm defenceless babies to get his attention though.

Only Lucy herself will ever know the truth.

I feel desperately sorry for the parents - including Lucy's. They must be living a nightmare.

I think she believes she didn’t do it. I think she has extremely ill, in a way we don’t understand. Her friends all couldn’t believe she had done it.

She seems emotionally very detached. I couldn't bear to hurt a fly so I couldn't imagine hurting a premature baby. She might lack any ability to feel empathy.

You’re not meant to be able to understand it that’s the point.

Shes probably not mentally ill in the way that a unit would be necessary, severe personality disorder? Psychopathy? Going to take a guess that quite a high % of violent offenders will tick PD boxes, we can’t put them all in secure units can we?

I suppose you have to say she was sound of mind enough to qualify as a nurse, to live a relatively normal life outside of this, therefore she’s not an absolute head case is she (sorry to be crude) but she’s clearly not mentally ill like schizophrenia etc.

She may just be an evil fucker because that’s just the way she was born. It’s the most horrifying thought that there are just some people that no intervention, mediation or therapy could help.

@Pigeonqueen

Just LL standing quietly by the side of the cot. Watching, not attempting to alert anyone

Fucking hell. That made my hair stand on end. How could not only cause suffering but sit and watch the newborn baby suffer like that? Beggars belief.

My feeling was that she just liked the drama of it for one reason or another. A grief vulture.

I think she got off on the control and being able to see the distress she caused and be in the centre if it - only her knowing what had happened.

I thought her writing was deranged but she could be innocent

This is spades. All about the control too.

That's exactly what I think. She caused a problem, caused some drama, lots of attention, lots of reasons to talk to the doctors (one in particular) about what's happened, night and day. Then she looks up the family photos on Facebook and gets off on the suffering she's caused and it makes her feel important.

Out of interest would some like LL be allowed internet access? Could she be posting on MN?

As to why? Psychopathy?

Would someone definitely have had to endure significant childhood trauma to be committing these crimes? Or can it be due to being born a psychopath? Sounds like she had a total lack of empathy and respect for the humanity of others.

But she wasn't was she? She already had amounted to something. She had a very good responsible job. Her own home. Friends. A supportive family. That's not someone amounting to nothing.

Yet she still did this. We will never know why in all probability

I think she was jealous of the parents for having babies because she wanted a family but was never in a functioning relationship except that affair with a doctor, who she knew wouldn't have a family with her. She liked to see the parents losing their dream family because it felt good to know they couldn't have what she would never have.

I think she was addicted to the affirmation and attention and praise she received in the role of caring super-nurse, because it made her feel special. The more vulnerable the patient, the more admiration she got, so she had no interest in patients who couldn't deliver that. Eventually she started creating situations in which she could be seen to advantage, by herself and others, because without that affirmation she felt empty.

I would also guess that other people exist mainly as an audience for her, which is the only way I can interpret descriptions of her being overly chatty and smiley when showing parents memory boxes of their children. Their pain was not real to her, they were just props meeting her need.

If someone is psychopathic it means that a part of their brain never develops properly, it's a bit like being thick but in the worst and most harmful possible way. Most people who are thick are so in a less harmful way like being bad with words or numbers or not being good at socialising, but psychopaths are thick in that they aren't able to understand other people exist or understand the meaning of right and wrong. It's quite rare though.

I've spent quite a bit of time in a neonatal unit lately and the idea of someone deliberately doing something to harm one of the babies really hit me hard. How awful for the rest of the team, too - they will have talked to LL about what happened without any idea she had caused it.

From what we have seen in the news and media she seemed so normal with a loving family, comfortable upbringing, regular group of friends and hobbies. People like Beverley Allit had form for being weirdos before they committed their crimes. I think that’s what baffles people, she just doesn’t appear to fit the ‘profile’ of a murderer.

For genuine psychopaths, human beings are not important to them. They don't feel any emotions and can hurt others with no guilt.

It's more shocking because she's a woman and she has killed babies but the evil is like other serial killers.

We are conditioned to think women will be kind, especially if they are young and pretty.

This is going to sound cruel but it’s not meant to be, it’s a way to describe how I’m trying to understand. I have a family member, she’s young, she has never really had friends, at school she did OK, went to university but was back home at 5 for supper every night, no social life there, she has a respectable job but it’s dull, she’s actually quite dull and always has been. Has never been interested in much, could never participate in a conversation that wasn’t about herself.

She has a desperate DESPERATE need to be important, exciting, the most interesting, most deserving of attention in the room. She is an illness faker, that’s blunt but there it is. It started in her mid teens and has escalated as she’s moved into adulthood. It’s exhausting and upsetting to see, she’s not well in herself but her dramatic life and awful need for total attention is played out through the illnesses and disabilities she presents. Visits to hospitals, battles with doctors who will not acknowledge her ‘lived experience’, therapy animals, elaborate and visible medical equipment for leaving the house, special food, all of that.

I could maybe understand Lucy Letby by imagining if my family member turned these strategies to get what she needs outwards rather than on herself.

I know what you mean OP and honestly I'm not that intrigued to look into this case because it is so upsetting.

But I agree it is useful to ask the question - she was an innocent, harmless baby herself at some point, and clearly presented as "normal" enough to go through all the process of training in her profession, she had friends etc who were totally shocked. What happened to make her do what she did? And I understand that she made a choice to act as she did - free will - but the vast vast majority of people would have the direct opposite instinctive response, so it's a very unusual choice and I do think if you understand what can lead people to make choices like that, then you are closer to preventing future Lucy Letbys.

You could look up about callous unemotional traits as it seems this is something which is more recent in research and might help us to understand so-called "evil" people.

There's obviously some degree of sociopath/psychopathic trait in her - to be able to kill something completely defenceless. In that; not seeking a fight, but instead she simply uses her power to take away life.

No remorse or empathy. Some sort of emotional pay off in the planning and/or the act.

Exactly what sort of payoff - you'd have to be on the same wavelength as her to understand. So most of us wont be able to understand.

Then the thrill/lift may have become addictive. So she's done it again and again.

No, she would not be allowed internet access.
The strange thing about her case is that, from the small amount I’ve read, she seemed to have a stable upbringing. Which says to me that it’s a personality disorder of some kind, possibly psychopathy.

I don't think there is any point in trying to work out why. They say people are not born psychopaths but perhaps some are.

I think (correct me if I'm wrong), psychopaths are particularly good actors. So they will seem normal. And that's how they can get away with things for so long. They mirror others normal emotions but don't feel them. Or maybe that's sociopaths. But LL was obviously not wired correctly.

I think some of notes found had things like ‘I’ll never marry and have a family’ written on them so the jealousy and resent may have been there. Although it doesn’t entirely make sense why she’d feel that way- she was only in her mid 20s when all of this was happening.

Someone above said she wouldn't be allowed internet access, but that guy who was filmed by his cellmate having sex with the prison officer certainly had internet access.