Lucy Letby ( To understand)

[PassingStranger]

What made her kill these babies. Been in the news again today.

It's hard to understand?
Presume as she is in prison and not a hospital, she is not mentally ill?

Will anyone try to find out, I guess if people don't admit they are guilty it's hard too.

Instead of people saying give me 5 mins in a cell with her, surely it's better to stop this happening or maybe it's not possible?
Why does she want to be one of the most hated women in the universe and not give a shit about the babies families and even her own parents?

So much better to be known for doing something nice and have people like you?
AIBU to wonder why she took this road in life?

Well I’m sure that really pissed those consultants off having to apologise. Maybe to the point they decided they witnessed something ?

So clinical staff wanted to cover up NHS failings, but NHS management didn't? And clinical staff are powerful, yet the management that forced them to apologise to LL or risk their careers, aren't powerful? Is that right?

Google Rachel Aviv Lucy Letby and scroll down to a post from X/Twitter. It's has the archive link which is accessible.

Perhaps you should look at the trial transcripts or anything pertaining to the 1 year plus police investigation before she was arrested. Not to mention that they continued investigating 2 years after arrest. Once again, people are making assumptions here. This was a very thorough investigation with tons of evidence presented in trial. It's not a wrong place, wrong time stitch up.

Not by jumping to the conclusion it must be Lucy Letby responsible

All I know from my own experience was that when we had a massive problem it was the doctors that were lying about what had happened / what tests had/hadn’t been done and more. Management seemed ineffective but not deceitful

I was also single for long stretches in my 20s.

I think LL was preoccupied with what she didn’t have - she wrote in her diary something to the effect “I will never get married or have children”.

Her bedroom was very childlike. That stood out to me.

I see how it could look like she was successful on the outside but then again looks can be deceiving.

Why did they not put cctv around the unit at any point for safeguarding if they had these horrific concerns ?

they didn’t find insulin. They found high levels of C peptides which can indicate high insulin. But I don’t think that the test can be used in that way for babies, it seems like there is more ways to interpret that evidence. Why her council conceded it was poisoning is baffling as I have read a few experts who have said it’s not.

But none of that equates to being a murderer of babies. Why is it even relevant?

Because I think it shows she coveted what the people around her at work had. It was a case of if I can’t have it neither can you. And I truly believe she didn’t believe she could have it as evidenced by diary entry.

I hope she rots. I’m glad her darkest fears were realised

So, in your version of events, clinical staff were interested in covering up failings on an NHS unit, and falsely scapegoated LL. But management, who were interested in truth and justice, defended LL and forced those clinical staff to apologise. At which point, enraged, clinical staff thought they would take things further by falsifying evidence to frame LL for murder. And were successful in duping the police, CPS and 2 juries. All the while, management watching the situation unfold, powerless to intervene on behalf of truth and justice. Is that right?

So we have:
Multiple clinical staff covering their own (possibly criminal?) negligence by intentionally committing perjury to frame an innocent woman for murder, and being successful in duping the police, CPS and two juries. This being a course of action (to escalate and involve the police) that they pursued, in full awareness of the truth being their own culpability for the deaths. All whilst management, aware of this heinous miscarriage of justice and having to a point been desperate to defend LL by threatening disciplinary action against aforementioned clinical staff, at some stage lost their power to do so (how? why?) and were not able to meaningfully intervene on LL's behalf. Or were also duped/convinced? Or inexplicably changed sides and joined the cover up? And we have a great difficulty in explaining the excess deaths and mounds of circumstantial evidence.

Vs

LL is guilty of the crimes she has been convicted of. Management were defensive of her to a point because they closed ranks around her, because of a desire to minimise unexplained excess deaths occuring on the unit, because there is no guide and barely any precedent for managing "a member of staff is actually murdering the patients". And the mound of circumstantial evidence fits.

I know which I find easier to believe.

The expert witness for the insulin cases was Professor Hindmarsh, by far the gold standard in endocrinologists if anyone would know he would know - so it’s clear that those babies were subject to insulin poisoning as if he thinks so then you can be almost certain he is correct.

I’m 50/50 it’s one of those scenarios I just don’t know which to me both are equally possible

I had no clue those babies died in pain until it was pointed out to me. That fact made me weep. I hate her. Miserable bitch.

I read the court transcripts on reddit and I don't think the evidence is weak. As standalone offerings evidence is weak but added together the picture is compelling and I can see why jurors were convinced. There was a lot about Letby being difficult in general, given as evidence in the trial. The evidence paints a significant picture of attention seeking behaviours escalating IMO:

1. Arguing with her supervisor about which babies she was assigned to and an angry exchange when she didn't get to look after the sickest babies
2. Criticism of her colleagues clinical actions (she did this both via text message to another colleague after shift and when she was on the stand - she said 'I wouldn't have done (the intubation) in that way, no'
3. Putting a lot of datix reports in
4. Testy exchanges via text message with another colleague where LL took offence at being questioned by her colleague about why she was so desperate to look after the sickest babies in Nursery 1, when she had been put in Nursery 3 (babies who were clinically assessed as being much less unwell were in N3).
5. The defence seeking advice from 4 expert witnesses and her counsel chose not to call on them in the trial.
6. LL on the stand said that the evidence showed that the babies had been poisoned via TP bags but she didn't think any staff on the unit did it...but couldn't offer an explanation as to how the insulin had got in the bags but agreed that they had been poisoned.
7. One of the victims mother's gave evidence about hearing a loud, wailing in pain cry from her baby (who she had left settled) from the corridor, rushed into the nursery and LL was standing next to the cot staring at the baby in distress and doing nothing. Similar evidence from a doctor.
8. She wrote a note saying 'I caused this' 'I am evil' etc.
9. She made comments about one of the babies who had died enjoying her first bath, whilst bathing the dead baby and not picking up on the parents distress
10. There seemed to be a pattern of attacks on babies on significant days: Father’s Day, 100th day of life, due date, the day the baby was supposed to be going home, twins and triplets were targeted. LL looked up parents on FB on significant anniversaries.
11. Two or three witnesses testified that she seemed animated and excited by the babies deaths.

One of those things alone, well yes you could put it down to unprofessionalism, stress, inexperience, acting oddly in distressing situations, pressure but added all together?

Babies can feel pain from quite an early gestation. I had to have a TFMR once and I was so distraught at the possibility my baby would feel pain. The consultant was so kind to me and explained that they think babies feel pain from possibly 20 weeks but more likely from 22 weeks as they’ve seen pain responses in very premature babies so I wasn’t to worry as I was just before that gestation. With my dc in nicu on 2 occasions they gave sugar water during a procedure and told me it helped with the pain for babies ??!

Apparently she searched everybody - not just parents but even people she met at a dance class etc ? So she was just a serial searcher it appears but that isn’t mentioned much as doesn’t fit the narrative

So if you have two possible scenarios:

Scenario one entails unprecedented criminal and illogical behaviour from a multitude of individuals coming together in a complex conspiracy with zero whistleblowers, plus incompetence by police, plus a mound of unexplained circumstantial evidence. Plus two juries reaching the wrong conclusion after months of presiding.

Scenario two entails one individual committing a series of criminal actions which are supported by the available evidence, and everyone else's behaviour (management, clinical staff, police, CPS and juries) making sense in that context.

Those are equally likely?

I feel the first is actually slightly more likely. Plausible deniability.

I think it’s far rarer to have a psychopath of that level than multiple low level corrupt individuals in the same organisation trying to cover for themselves and each other

Just why on earth did they not get cctv in there asap ? To safeguard everyone and if she was responsible to save lives ?

I have a PD. It is caused by a combination of my brain being different and the way I was brought up.

She could also have been the person starting or on this thread and be reading it with glee if what people say about her being a power mad nutter. We might just be fuelling her fire if she has access to this thread better not talking about her at all.

She would not be allowed internet access

'Apparently' she was a serial searcher - okay but the evidence presented in court is that she searched her patients and her families (which oversteps professional boundaries). There is no evidence in court that she was searching everyone. The evidence given is that she searched these families, are we focussing on the evidence or not?