The "terrifying threat from Labour"

[BigWordAtlas]

I know that Tory HQ staff often come on here and post, and will be doing even more so at the moment.

I also know that Kier Starmer has done a terrible job in gender critical thinking, and members like him, Rayner and Lammy are currently an absolute shitshow when it comes to the rights and protections of women and children. I'm not looking forward to the battle we'll face after the election to reverse the damage that's been done and to protect those rights, and fully bring down all the MRA policies that have formally or informally kicked in over the last few years.

But does anyone else feel like the absolute barrage on here in the last few days about the Holy Bloody Handmaid Terror that will be Labour's government is a bit... overblown? A bit Tory HQ-flavoured? They're absolutely panicking at the moment and will do any kind of astroturfing they can to chip away at votes, particularly in swing constituencies like mine.

No party is perfect, and Labour is currently far from perfect for me and my children. But realistically, I have to vote Labour where I am if I want to keep a Tory candidate out. I hate their gender ID policies, but this nail-bitten tone of total and complete apocalypse (and yes, I've heard posters use that word in this context) feels unhelpful and not really equipping anyone to improve things after the GE. They made me feel extremely anxious until I just hit a wall with the frantic language, and now I'm feeling much more pragmatic and ready to fight with Labour on this stuff, rather than against them and allowing another party to get in.

So AIBU to feel that most of these posts are at least seeded by Tory HQ, rather than actual Labour voters like me?

<hard hat donned>

Anyone that doesn't bow down at the feet of Kier seems to be labelled a Tory bot, A lot of Labour supporters are very unoriginal but at least they are consistent

Maybe, just maybe, some people are fucking scared that he'll dismantle the rights that have been hard won over the years by women in order to appease the TRA/MRAs and we'll never get them back?

Ithink women here are worried because once you get laws passed that enshire gender ideology , it becomes extremely difficult to get rid of them, and they actually prevent people from doing what is necessary to get rid of them.

I don't see how op, in Rotherham, no one felt they could mention the abuse at all under labour for fear of being called racist.
Things still are not great now but that dam broke almost as soon as Labour went and it all came out..

I have to say that I agree.

@TempestTost yes and unfortunately there is already a strangle hold in nealry every area of life including the NHS, education and the police, councils!

But the thing they both have in common is that they are now both outside state education and privately funded by the individual so if its acceptable to add VAT onto 1, why not the other? Especially as Labour have already mentioned the need for uni fees to increase. See also private tutors.

You might think it's a nuts thing to worry about, but people worry about all sorts of things whether those things are nuts or not and it's a major concern of mine.

both women and (good) men are waking up to and will have more luck fighting for under Labour than they did under the last government.

Yes @BigWordAtlas I do agree to some extent, that actually some of the more extreme madness has lit up the issue. Labour could be the petrol on the fire now.

I can’t name one thing.

No, they aren’t. There’s no free alternative. Totally different. Private universities (of which there are a few) maybe as there is a much cheaper alternative which is supported by the state.
Edit: people worrying about nuts things are usually doing it because nutters have suggested it. The Tories are scaremongering about all these things and you are buying into it (assuming you aren’t. Shill/bot).

As a result of these international laws and treaties the UK courts are constantly being challenged when we try to deport convicted foreign criminals and as a result many remain either free in the community if they’ve completed their sentences or if not they continue to be are kept in prison at the cost of the taxpayer

People have been living on a knife edge for thousands of years what ever government was in power
I do think messing with that and tipping people into debt for the good of public services is not going to end well

I actually think that if there wasn’t the campaign to get rid of Boris we wouldn’t be in such dire circumstances now (A case of be careful of what you wish for) We wouldn’t have had a prime minister with his hands tied trying to defend himself he would have been getting on with running the country. The whole Covid restrictions were ridiculous.
We wouldn’t have had Liz Truss and the budget which brought so much damage
And we wouldn’t have ended up with a PM who made a good chancellor but was completely out of touch with reality and wasn’t fit to run a country.

Personally I am not voting. I think policies and manifestos aside I think Starmer isn’t a strong enough personality to keep control of those in the Labour Party who have been waiting and hiding their own agenda for when Labour are in power and to stop any of the infighting I see happening
I think no matter how much of a landslide there is in Labours favour I think it will be wasted

The Conservatives are led by someone who not only has no idea of the reality of peoples lives but also has no interest in winning (he has already bought his next home and it isn’t in the UK)

That leaves Reform’s leader Farage
Here is someone who you feel knows what he wants the country to look like, whether you agree or disagree with him and unlike Starmer he I feel is someone who couldn’t give a flying f**k about trying to keep everyone happy. He also has some understanding of what people are going through at the moment

Which then makes you wonder how really F**ked this country is if Nigel Farage is looking like a better leader than the current encumbents of the 2 main parties

Or help women, or children in any way, whatsoever.

No. Nothing.

But if you're not voting Labour, there is only Conservatives and Reform?!😱 🤮

Which then makes you wonder how really Fked this country is if Nigel Farage is looking like a better leader than the current encumbents of the 2 main parties
No worries then, @Yalta , because he’s not. The only circumstance in which I’d vote Tory is to keep Farage or one o& his employees out. Because even more Rishi and Co is preferable.

Why would I care about private schools since we could never afford to use one even if we wanted to.

Starmer will learn pretty quickly that the mechanisms that actually power the country don't have much time for 'but this grown man wants to be in the Ladies', please BeKind'.

I hope you're right OP but I think you are probably over optimistic. Most people are moderately gender critical if they ever consider it, but many of the people influential in our institutions are not.

I think Maya Forstater said before her tribunal that she was sure the "grown ups" would come in and sort the mess out, until she had the horrible realisation that she was the grown ups.

They've actually removed protections.

I've been horrified at the complete absence of all the services that used to be available to confirm from birth to five (and beyond). I've mentioned before, that our local clinic is empty and boarded up. It used to provide a paediatric dentist, a speech therapist, a chiropodist (who my little daughter saw for a casting and an insole to minimise her hereditary bunions), an NHS physiotherapist, and a large team of health visitors and midwives. As well as hosting ante natal and post natal classes. And probably more that I didn't use.

It's not that those services have just moved somewhere else. They just don't exist. There are still health visitors, but a fraction of the number. But that's it. My daughters ante and post natal support was almost non existent. And my granddaughters delay not picked up because checks were missed, or done several months too late.

My little granddaughters have had none of those services. Sadly, severe buck teeth run in our family. Both my daughters had free orthodontic treatment. Now my grandkids can't even get a normal dental check up.

Health and education are my worries, so no, I'm not going to vote based on a narrow single issue, especially as I don't believe it would be addressed.

What about those on zero hours contracts, those on poverty wages who need them topped up by universal credit. Doesn’t matter how hard you work, if you need top ups with UC you can’t have savings of more than £6,000.

Im using our family income to illustrate that we are within the suggested target of Labour. I don’t believe those on a knife edge will be adversely affected, I think they will benefit by better services.

On the subject of trans women, which tends to dominate these threads.

Many trans folk present very convincingly as feminine women.
Some not so much.
Most trans women are totally harmless and just want to live their lives, with respect, in line with the wider population.
A small minority are potentially dangerous, in line with the wider population.

And no, it’s not women’s responsibility to give up their single-sex spaces in order to solve where trans women go to the loo, or get changed, or access healthcare, or indeed go to prison.

HOWEVER it IS society’s issue to solve where trans women do these things, because no one could surely think it’s acceptable, or safe, for feminine trans women to have to use a men’s public toilet, or changing room.

And it can’t be beyond us to find a practical solution, to what is for the most part a practical problem.

But it is difficult. It would involve extra loos and changing rooms, and hospital beds, and money. And legislation to protect women who want female-only healthcare professionals.

That’s the hard bit, and no one, from any political party, has an answer to this yet.

Having said that, I do believe that Labour has woken up, and the penny has dropped. And I would trust them to take this issue seriously, as opposed to empty rhetoric from the Tories.

In terms of this, the third space campaign isn’t women’s to run. As far as I understand, the problem comes about because most vocal TRAs don’t want a third space and aren’t interested in campaigning for one. They want women’s spaces, and they want women to either shut up (at least) or welcome them in and say what excellent women these men are (at best).

It isn’t women’s responsibility to run a campaign that is absolutely nothing to do
with them, much as I’m sure many would lend their support.

Thank you for debating, @Yalta . Unfortunately if you think the error was getting rid of Boris Johnson, and if you also think that Nigel Farage has an “actual
understanding of what people are going through”, I’m not sure we’ve found sufficient common ground to have a useful conversation.

I wish you lots of luck with everything, though.

First of all The Labour Party has to admit this is a problem and tell us loud and clear before the election they will create 3rd spaces for trans people. However, their stance is still TWAW so they can access women only spaces and biological women’s safety will be put at risk because not all those who will obtain a GRC will be harmless

@BigWordAtlas

"In terms of this, the third space campaign isn’t women’s to run."

I agree, and said so in my post.

A practical solution to a practical problem needs to be reached, without women giving up our single-sex spaces.

I am on a zero hours contract

I don’t see why paying more tax is going to get me more

Interested in knowing what this more looks like

What extra public services will I benefit from by having less money in my pocket.
I have adult children, I am on UC but that only amounts to around £320 per month and most of the time I earn more which means I usually get £0 from UC

If I don’t work then a £320 per month “safety net” doesn’t look very much like a safety net

Even if someone has housing benefit etc it might not cover the whole rent and if someone is reliant on coming out with a certain amount and then they are getting less then UC aren’t going to cover all off the short fall.

I think you are out of touch with how these things work

You won’t be asked to pay more tax at those levels. The manifesto is clear on that.