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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be so fucking angry

142 replies

Crystallizedring · 01/07/2024 22:15

DS had another settle at school today which was storytime with teacher. DH had to carry him in to school (frankly I'd have given up then as it was never going to go well with that start).
DS cried when DH left and stood by the door for the whole session which was 30 minutes long and DH picked up early. During his session DH talked to the head, who admitted they wouldn't be able to cope with DS very well. That he would need short sessions and long transition period.
None of this is a surprise, none of this is unexpected but I'm so angry, not with the school, but with the LA who refused to assess him for EHCP.
We are obviously challenging this but I'm just so angry. Every single professional who sees DS knows he has additional needs, every single professional has said he's going to need extra support or a special school place. How can they refuse to even assess him with so much evidence? What if they still refuse? Even if they agree to assess and put a plan in place it takes 20 weeks.
What is supposed to happen to DS in that time? How can they refuse to assess a non verbal 4 year old who is in nappies and has the emotional, social and intellectual age of a child half his age?
What are the school supposed to do when they have 29 other children to teach? We're supposed to have a meeting with school before the end of term to work out how to help DS but I don't know what they can do.
I am just so sad that DS is going to start school and be lost because the LA are too stupid to assess him.
The amount of anger I have is unhealthy. Am I being unreasonable to be so angry?

OP posts:
PurpleBugz · 02/07/2024 08:11

Slightly different but my kid got sort of pushed out of reception within half a term after our EHCP was refused. The LA wanted to force him into another mainstream and I refused. They then said we are electively home educating so they have no duty. At this point I quoted the children act and the education act saying I have a duty to keep y child safe (which he isn't at school) that I have a duty to get him appropriately educated (which mainstream isn't). I made formal complaints. They assessed and gave an EHCP still naming mainstream and I stood my ground and too it to appeal and won. I think it's something like 96% or 98% of appeals that win. Just disgusting.

But if you have lots of evidence as it sounds like you have then you can keep him home and still do the EHCP process. The 20 weeks is not going to be 20 weeks they will take longer then you will have a year wait for tribunal to appeal it, then when you win the special schools have no places so you I'll just be waiting on a space for months. so be prepared for this to take a couple years.

Keeping child home definitely makes it harder but I'm glad I did it my child was being traumatised at mainstream school. My advice is do a SAR on nursery and also do one on school for how they wrote up the visit your child had. Use this in your evidence. Once my kid was kicked out of school and they refused to help me with any paperwork or provide evidence (probably because it dames them for disability discrimination). But I did a SAR so had evidence even when my child was out of school

SerafinasGoose · 02/07/2024 08:21

I'm so sorry, OP. I've recently found myself in the same situation when trying to have my DC assessed for sensory processing disorder and dyslexia. My DC's problems are less acute than yours and manifested later (age 9), but still enough to cause significant difficulty. The schools cannot provide this screening: it's out of their hands, and I know from speaking to our SENCO that this is a source of intense frustration and sometimes distress for them that children are being failed by the system. The cost to me for both sets of tests, together with full reports, didn't leave much change from £1K. And even for those who pay, there's a tiny dyslexia charity serving a huge area and the waiting time is a minimum six months.

Of course this is an utter disgrace. There are families who will have to prioritise food and heating, and for whom meeting this cost is simply impossible. Further, I am a university lecturer and support students with disabilities: recently we've had to change our entire institutional policy because students with SEN cannot get the diagnoses they need and deserve. They now all receive extra time for exams and on-demand assessment extensions, although quite how that's levelling the playing field for those who are disadvantaged it's difficult to say.

I wrote to my own MP - first time I ever have - given my own LEA has long been one of the worst funded in the country. I received a kind, sympathetic response and it really does seem he was pulling out the stops to help: he initiated a parliamentary debate and has been actively campaigning, but it simply isn't good enough.

The Tories, to put it bluntly, don't give a shit for the disabled. Other PPs upthread have given better practical advice: I just wanted you to know that I hear you and I sympathise. The situation is simply not good enough.

Branleuse · 02/07/2024 08:22

This is actual proof that he needs an ehcp. The whole process is hideous. You have to prove that youve tried and it failed and the school have to agree that they cant manage before they even assess. Its really shit and traumatic for everyone

notsofantastic · 02/07/2024 08:23

You must appeal and you must really get to grips with EHCPs and specials schools locally etc. There are lots of incredibly supportive and useful Facebook groups (including local ones) where information is shared. Consider whether you can afford an advocate to help co-ordinate the appeal etc. Don't rely on any school to take over the process of EHCP etc.

Also, if your son is clearly not managing at nursery, consider very carefully whether it is the right decision to put him into the much more challenging setting of mainstream school. Could you manage (with support) to home ed in the short term while you fight for a special school place? Could you find a SEN nursery that might be a better fit that would have him for one year, even if part time?

It's a horrible process and yes, the LAs say no over and over again and you have to fight them every step of the way. I have recently sent over a 100 pages of evidence to panel... I did a SAR to get the notes from the meeting and (as I suspected) they hadn't even looked at any of it before they refused. They have also failed to meet any legal deadline.

HannaLaura · 02/07/2024 08:25

Also keep in mind that even an EHCP with a named special school may not guarantee a place.

Due to this Tory government’s politics ( academy system, LA’s do not have permission to open new schools) and a severe lack of funding, there are many children, with EHCP’s, with named special schools, because mainstream cannot meet their high needs, in mainstream schools. I see on average 4 in each primary in this situation. Children, families and school staff all struggling.

Other children are in independent schools which are costing LA’s a six figure sum, per child per year, plus transport costs, awarded by judicial review. This uses the same funding.

Fight! MP, local councillor, Director of CYPS.

All children have the right to an education.

Crystallizedring · 02/07/2024 08:50

EinekleineKatze · 02/07/2024 06:57

Genuine question.
Even with a EHCP in place, is it still possible that a school genuinely still could accommodate a child with complex needs? Can schools be forced to accept a child?
I really wish the best for your son @Crystallizedring but still think he's possibly just too young for school, bearing in mind his age/the age you said he is functioning at.
Are there any special schools within travelling distance? Would that be more realistic for him?
Sorry if any of these questions are naive, I'm honestly just trying to think what is the most realistic plan for him, and those around him, to thrive.

He would be much better at at a special school and there is a fantastic one in our area. However until he gets the EHCP no special school will take him.
In no way am I trying to blame any of the schools or nursery as I know it's not their fault just a generally shit, broken system.

OP posts:
Crystallizedring · 02/07/2024 08:54

Oblomov24 · 02/07/2024 07:08

You would be better starting another thread in the SN section and getting fab help from the wise MN'ers there.

I'm sorry but you do sound quite clueless. You are going to have to wise up very quickly, play the game and contact everybody that needs contacting. and take notes and follow things up with email and chase and chase because the whole system is very hard work but you really need to wise up and play the game.

Make an appointment to see the GP. apply for the EHCP yourself. Immediately. make an appointment to see the head and the senco. get all your paperwork and everything from the nursery that you need.

you need to utilise everybody you can, chase and chase and chase again and again, you're never gonna get anywhere unless you treat this as though you were an investigator or a cop and dealing with a case.

We've applied for the EHCP. They refused to assess him. I have contacted mediation and am waiting for my appointment which I'm going to chase next week if I hear nothing. I'm also going to write to our MP next week. I'm meeting with the school next week. Not too sure what else I can do.

OP posts:
EinekleineKatze · 02/07/2024 08:56

Crystallizedring · 02/07/2024 08:50

He would be much better at at a special school and there is a fantastic one in our area. However until he gets the EHCP no special school will take him.
In no way am I trying to blame any of the schools or nursery as I know it's not their fault just a generally shit, broken system.

Yes, it does sound absolutely pants.
I hope you are able to get what you need in place for him and that you have some good support around you (family, friends etc) while this is happening.
Also, this advice used to be given when folk were applying for DLA (disability living allowance) but it may apply here too - do not underplay how much support he really needs on a daily basis, be brutally honest, and also do not underplay how much having this support would contribute to him living a decent life!

maracoca · 02/07/2024 08:57

HannaLaura · 02/07/2024 08:25

Also keep in mind that even an EHCP with a named special school may not guarantee a place.

Due to this Tory government’s politics ( academy system, LA’s do not have permission to open new schools) and a severe lack of funding, there are many children, with EHCP’s, with named special schools, because mainstream cannot meet their high needs, in mainstream schools. I see on average 4 in each primary in this situation. Children, families and school staff all struggling.

Other children are in independent schools which are costing LA’s a six figure sum, per child per year, plus transport costs, awarded by judicial review. This uses the same funding.

Fight! MP, local councillor, Director of CYPS.

All children have the right to an education.

This is very odd. Which LA is this?
If a school is named in the plan the child has a legal right to attend. Think this requires a pre-action letter with a view to judicial review.

MummyBobbles · 02/07/2024 09:00

Have you spoken to your local SENDIAS? They are there to support you and advise you in exactly these situations. Also speak to a SEN solicitor. Join SEN facebook groups like SEND & EHCP Advice & Support, you will be recommended solicitors/legal advisors and just offered the right support for your situation. Honestly, just knowing you're not on your own really helps. Your child clearly needs an asssesment. Don't take no for an answer. Sadly fighting is the only way.

EinekleineKatze · 02/07/2024 09:00

maracoca · 02/07/2024 08:57

This is very odd. Which LA is this?
If a school is named in the plan the child has a legal right to attend. Think this requires a pre-action letter with a view to judicial review.

How does this work with numbers, for example 3 children are granted the right to attend the school but there is in fact only one more space open? Or is space looked at when granting the plan/application?

elliejjtiny · 02/07/2024 09:01

I'm so sorry this is happening. We were in a similar situation a few weeks ago with my son who is 10 years old but has the emotional development of a 3 year old and has autism. School applied for an ehcp but LA refused to assess. We won at mediation and the assessment started last week.

Figgygal · 02/07/2024 09:04

What you and so many others are going through is an utterly disgrace!!
My friend Is a primary teacher she is assaulted weekly, has children with significant physical and cognitive impairment in class, unsupported ND children and uncooperative parents to manage - everyone is being failed by the funding negligence that is going on in education.

We are 2.5 years into an ADHD assessment wait ourselves.

LakieLady · 02/07/2024 09:12

endofthelinefinally · 02/07/2024 00:09

"The inference is obvious you wont get an EHCP that costs the LEA money"
This was exactly how it was 40 years ago, 30 years ago and 20 years ago. I don't think it has ever got better or changed. Parents were struggling to pay for private schools with small classes and extra help back then too. IME of at least two head teachers, they didn't "believe in" dyslexia, dyspraxia or ASD. Even going to appeal was a shocking experience because of the lies and incompetence of the LEA. It is an absolute disgrace OP and I am so sorry it is happening to your child.

I think it's got worse.

For several years at the end of the last century, I worked in the legal department of an LEA and setting up SEN appeals (as they were then) was part of my job. When we got the paperwork, we'd take a good look at the evidence and in around 40%-50% of cases would tell the education department that we thought they would lose and they might as well stop wasting our time and issue a statement of needs.

Under the new system, there doesn't appear to be any point at which that happens, and the whole process seems to take a hellish amount of time.

My DIL is an ELSA in a mainstream school, in the LEA I used to work for. When she tells me about some of the children that she supports, and shows me the bruises, bitemarks etc, I find it incredible that children with such significant needs are in mainstream, and with what appears to be minimal specialist input.

The system wasn't brilliant in the 90s, but it seems to be utter shite now. And it's not helped by CAMHS being shite too, and only having capacity to help the most very troubled children. Friend's son had a 6-year wait for an ASD assessment, and was out of school for 5 years of that time. He finally got his diagnosis a few weeks before his 16th birthday. He's had no secondary education, apart from a few days that he found so awful that he was self-harming and suicidal.

I hope that a change of government will improve things, but I'm not holding my breath.

Arewealljustloosingtheplot · 02/07/2024 09:16

Crystallizedring · 02/07/2024 01:09

Nursery seem unwilling to keep DS for another year, even though he is a summer baby. They think nursery is no longer really the place for him. I'm not sure why. He's not violent but is in his own little world.
When he left toddlers he was saying more words and was starting to play with other children but that has all gone now. He also finds the room overwhelming with 45 children sometimes it's actually busier than school (although obviously more staff too).
I really don't care how overstretched the LA are or if they are short of money. All I really care about is my son.
I will write to my MP on the weekend and see if that helps.

have you considered sourcing specialist provision yourself ? Thats what I did. Though we are still coping at mainstream school for the moment ( secondary) , the ECHP wait here is 92 weeks so I’ve not bothered. Her school are very supportive, perhaps look for an alternative for now that will support the process?

Betterversionofme · 02/07/2024 09:59

You could gather your evidence in one document and engage a lawyer to send a letter requesting for an assessment with a said document attached. That might be all the extent you might need a lawyer for. I'd expect a prompt appointment afterwards as if you have a case if it goes to a court they loose and they know it.
Also, nobody wants to deal with a difficult person so they might just want to get you out of the way.
Just let LA know you are serious.
Unfortunately, this approach, together with always communicating to the point, calmly, even coldly, works for me. I am NOT a 'co-operative' or 'understanding' person though.

nottatroll · 02/07/2024 10:01

Go online and look for examples of letters for a request for statutory assessment. Use all the evidence that you have, including the difficulties that you are experiencing at the moment with accessing mainstream school, as evidence. Use and reports from health visitors or other professionals about your son's developmental delays, use reports from SaLT about his problems with verbal communication. The issue a request for statutory assessment.

This should result in an assessment for EHCP. If not, appeal and appeal again.

We had to use parental referral for both our children. I have no idea why some LAs drag their feet when needs are so obvious.

BrumToTheRescue · 02/07/2024 10:06

Morph22010 · 02/07/2024 07:03

Not if it’s our la they won’t, assessments are currently taking over 52 weeks, they were in special needs jungle hall of shame, they just ignore the pre action letters from ipsea now, there’s very little you can do about it that doesn’t also tske a long time. Plus the wait for appeal is now about 10 months

The wait for refusal to assess appeals is not 10 months unless it is an oral hearing and the vast majority are not. Most are heard on the papers.

Parents don’t have to accept unlawful behaviour. If a pre-action letter doesn’t work, JR itself will. Most then concede when they are served.

BrumToTheRescue · 02/07/2024 10:08

TippyTiger · 02/07/2024 06:23

@Crystallizedring

Yes you have every right to be angry. The whole system is woefully underesourced and underfunded - with schools barely able to keep their head above water.

Just a different angle - my son was awarded an EHCP this time last year, which meant a different application process for reception (his mainstream application was null and void after being granted an EHCP.)

One school outright rejected, another school attempted the same. I thought he would have no school place at all - hadn't even started considering a specialist school (which have long waiting lists, long travel time, few and far between in our area).

After a week of fighting and crying he got a mainstream place.

In retrospect, I’d have made sure he had a school place before getting an EHCP. In my experience, schools can use them to exclude children.

Having a school place prior to an EHCP is irrelevant because the same rules (which state unless the school is wholly independent there are limited circumstances the LA can lawfully refuse to name the parent’s preferred placement and the school can be named even if they object) apply whether the child is already on roll or not, and schools must still be consulted before being named in an EHCP even if the child is already on roll.

BrumToTheRescue · 02/07/2024 10:09

EinekleineKatze · 02/07/2024 09:00

How does this work with numbers, for example 3 children are granted the right to attend the school but there is in fact only one more space open? Or is space looked at when granting the plan/application?

With an EHCP, if the school is named in section I, they must admit. Being full is not defined in law, and on its own being ‘full’ is not enough of a reason to refuse to name parental preference. The LA has to prove the school is so full admitting DC is incompatible. Obviously there is a point where LAs can do this, but the bar is higher than many LAs and schools claim.

BrumToTheRescue · 02/07/2024 10:10

Arewealljustloosingtheplot · 02/07/2024 09:16

have you considered sourcing specialist provision yourself ? Thats what I did. Though we are still coping at mainstream school for the moment ( secondary) , the ECHP wait here is 92 weeks so I’ve not bothered. Her school are very supportive, perhaps look for an alternative for now that will support the process?

It is brilliant you can afford independent specialist provision. The vast majority of parents can’t afford that even if they have a suitable specialist school accepting self funders within travelling distance.

BrumToTheRescue · 02/07/2024 10:11

@Crystallizedring be careful with SENDIASS. Some are good but too many repeat the LA’s unlawful policies.

Just get the mediation certificate. Don’t bother actively partaking in mediation. LAs use it as a delaying tactic. If they are going to concede, they will do so whether you actively partake or just get the certificate and submit to SENDIASS.

Arewealljustloosingtheplot · 02/07/2024 10:11

BrumToTheRescue · 02/07/2024 10:10

It is brilliant you can afford independent specialist provision. The vast majority of parents can’t afford that even if they have a suitable specialist school accepting self funders within travelling distance.

Oh I can’t afford it really, , but the poster said she just cared what was best for her son so I was suggesting an interim / alternative approach that might help in the short term at least.

BrumToTheRescue · 02/07/2024 10:13

Arewealljustloosingtheplot · 02/07/2024 10:11

Oh I can’t afford it really, , but the poster said she just cared what was best for her son so I was suggesting an interim / alternative approach that might help in the short term at least.

For most people, if is out of the question even short term.

LakieLady · 02/07/2024 10:58

Sparla · 02/07/2024 05:42

The council refuses automatically, at every step. It’s not personal, just process. Heartbreaking but you have to kick down a door at each step to get anywhere. Find a charity locally to guide you and don’t take no for an answer.

Every council is similar but Labour councils doing this feels like a betrayal. Heartless.

Sadly, Labour councils are still subject to Tory funding arrangements. They may have different priorities from Tory councils, but it doesn't make the pot of money any bigger.

Hopefully, that may change soon...