To think it's ok to holiday the summer before 11+?

[ElevenPlusOrHoliday]

DS is due to take the 11+ the second week of September. DH has been working through prep books with him since last autumn, but they still have quite a bit to get through. They haven't finished the books and still need to take practice tests.

Usually, over the summer holiday, we visit my parents in the states for a week. DS absolutely adores his grandparents and looks forward to the trip all year.

DH thinks we should cancel this year to concentrate on 11+ instead. DS will be heartbroken.

It's also true that the secondary school we think likely will best fit DS is a nearby grammar school that is usually oversubscribed, so to get in, he would need to do reasonably well on the 11+. And, the nearby non-grammar school seems like it really, really would not suit him well.

I don't know what to do. DH thinks that if I take DS on holiday, I might be ruining his future. I understand, but also think that 1.5 weeks of lost study shouldn't be that critical.

YABU = Skip holiday this year, 11+ is more important
YANBU = Take DS on holiday

Well its becoming clear why I read so many threads about unhappy children in education. Hothousing is one sure way of making a child hate learning. And regardless of his score, which by the way could be impacted by anything uncontrollable that day. It won't make matter a jot if you now have a child stressed to the hilt!.

He needs a break, I studied Law in the 90s when it was brutal and I mean brutal. I took holidays because it isn't healthy not to. Leave the books etc at home - he needs fun and connection.

And, the nearby non-grammar school seems like it really, really would not suit him well

What do you mean by this? If he doesn't pass, he will presumably go to the local comprehensive (or possibly a secondary modern if you're in an all-grammar area). Like thousands and thousands of DCs do every year. Why wouldn't that suit him?

Your husband is an absolute moron OP. Your child is 10, not even in a GCSE year. Of course he deserves a summer holiday and time with his grandparents. Do you have other children? Is he planning on behaving like this with them too?
Dear Lord, I hate pushy parents. Let the kid be a kid, he will do well at whatever school he is meant to be at

This is just so sad.
For me this is verging on bullying and controlling by parents to the detriment of child’s well-being.

As pp have said any child who needs extensive coaching to pass the 11+ coaching FOR A YEAR!) will surely not cope in the school anyway.

10 year olds need to be ‘10 ‘ not missing out on holidays because they are revising for the 11+ . Is he allowed to go outside to play / Xbox / friends over or sleepovers?
As for ruining his life - your DH needs to get a grip.

Reminds me of a young daughter of my DH friend - her extra curricular ‘fun’ activities are not fun as she has to excel in them all ( think music classes for violin/martial arts has to be achieving all levels and gets critiqued by her parent if she doesn’t do well in spite of the fact parent knows nothing about music or martial arts!)

Plus she has to do extra French tuition maths and English and has already started revising for her GCSEs which will be 2025. Poor kid never smiles and is clearly always tired and on edge.

Hot housing is disgusting. It's unfair on the child being bullied by their parents and it's unfair on the children with natural aptitude who should rightfully take that place. It's verging on abuse to deny a child a break from education to just be a child for a few weeks because you feel it will give you as parents kudos to have a grammar school child.

Hardly ,there are 163 Grammar schools in England despite what mumsnet would have you belive ,the vast majority of Kids are educated in Comprehensive s because Grammar don't exist in most LEA,s and haven't done in Decades.

To be fair to the op there could be many reasons why it’s not suitable. Those reasons are irrelevant.
we all have preferred schools for our
kids regardless of the area we live.

Go on holiday. Take the books with you on the plane if you must. It's not worth losing a holiday over and if he's really struggling this much, then it's not going to make a bit of difference to the outcome. Would he even be happy at a school where he could be constantly struggling to keep up?
For what it's worth, we did do, and pass 11+ after being away for 2 weeks in the school holiday. We took the work books and they did some in the car on the way.

I've had four children go through the 11+ - we went on holiday every summer beforehand and they probably did a max of 3 hours a week in the break, which was really just practising timings by that point.

If you are having to do hours of work every day in the holiday, I would gently suggest grammar school isn't the right setting.....

People saying 'if he needs this much prep he won't cope at a grammar' clearly don't live in a grammar area! The fact that there are a significant number of incredibly hard working families who prep to insane levels has upped the standard for everyone. You now need to have covered all of the Y6 syllabus in Y5 and you need to be fast and accurate too. In our area the Asian families generally get about 4 years ahead in maths and this is a constant source of amazement to me. I literally don't know how they do it.

I would still take the holiday but I'd be doing 2 hours a day while there. I think more than 2 hours starts to get detrimental but maybe that's why my child isn't one of the 4 years ahead bunch.

Thank you for saying what I was thinking. I do think that putting intense pressure on a child is abusive.

This sounds like waaaay to much pressure for 11+. And as others have said, if he needs that much intervention than maybe grammar isn't for him anyway. And if he doesn't need it, then he should have his holiday. No way should a (really quite short) holiday be canceled for this.

I sat entry for a grammar at that age and though I hardly worked that intensively I do remember bringing a practice book on holiday beforehand and using it a few times while away.

@AngryBird6122 if a kid was training for an elite sport, 2 hours a day for a set period of time probably wouldn’t be that outrageous (albeit in my sports analogy the kid would need rest days). The 11+ is a hard exam, it does require intensive prep, that’s just the reality for most. I find it odd how we’re collectively so outraged at the 11+ prep but wouldn’t be getting so riled if it was a sports selection.

Oh- and the competitive non-revisors (not a word!) make me laugh.

OP I’d compromise, as others have said, and take the books, agree an amount beforehand and use the journey time to balance out any days that aren’t really possible. 3 decent sessions over a week would really keep your ds ticking over, so it doesn’t have to be all or nothing. And good luck, it’s a massive slog, but worth it in my opinion.

We weren't planning one for financial reasons but got a last minute deal in August in a caravan in UK. DS was so happy to get away. We did very little in the holidays and made sure in the couple of weeks before to do no prep just reading as he would do in term time. He seemed very fresh and rested when he went for his test. His friend's dad was same as your DH not wanting a holiday because of the exam. I think their son was worn down by the time the 11+ came around. He didn't pass. They need a break and I think tutors/ teachers would agree? If he really has to do something while away then a ten minute test every day/ reading should be enough by then.

If that week doing no or less work will make the difference between passing and failing, then I'd say grammar wouldn't be the right school for him, given that he has been working towards it for a year.
One paper a day won't disrupt his holiday too much if you need to compromise or are concerned about him forgetting how to do things.
We live in a selective area so do understand the prep required and have seen the fall out of heavily tutored children scraping in and struggling after.

Your DH has his priorities wrong. Another one saying if a single week is pass or fail he shouldn't be going to the grammar.

My DS is also preparing for the 11+ so I understand the pressure - the difference between the grammar and non-grammar here is huge in terms of subjects, extra-curricular, results etc so I’d really love him to get in. He will definitely be having a good week off (and weekends off) over the summer though, and lots of treats. I think you should go on holiday, but draw up a revision plan around it to make sure you cover what you need to. Maybe you could take some workbooks for the plane (it’ll be a long boring flight anyway) if he’s up for that - or failing that, a good book to read. I’d love for my DS not to have to work over the summer and feel awful for making him do it - (and its going to be hard going for me too) but the truth is that getting in is so competitive, there are thousands of kids revising like crazy all summer and he’s up against them. I hope you can have a lovely holiday.

This thread is eye-opening about parental attitudes to education. Suppose you all calmed the fuck down, didn't have your children tutored, and accepted that many of your children are intellectually ordinary without intensive hothousing, and are best suited to a school that caters to the level that they can achieve unaided?

I find the UK approach to education to be so counterproductive. And I say that as a parent of two children who would have absolutely thrived in the environment - they both are very exam focused and STEN (standardised testing) in the top 1% of Ireland.

The problem is if they had been in that environment they would have not learnt how to "learn", to fail, to struggle, to study other non examinable subjects.

These are such important life skills. I really would like to dig into the data of these kids 10, 20 years later because I would guess they don't all become super achievers but rather one dimensional, disillusioned young people with no idea what they want to study.

Thanks all. I agree that a good plan is to take the books with us and do some revision while away. DH argues that the revision done while on holiday won't be as good as revision at home, which is probably true, but I'd hope it would be good enough. (To make matters more difficult, DH is thinking about not going this year, so it would be on me to supervise revision.)

Part of the problem is that DS hasn't been being "hothoused". DH and DS haven't been doing very much revision, so DH feels they are behind and need the holiday to catch up. (And from some people's comments, it does seem they are behind.) On the other hand, I haven't heard any particular plan from DH about how exactly they would use the time to catch up.

In some ways I agree that if DS needs lots of coaching then maybe a grammar school isn't right for him. Until a year ago or so, I assumed he wouldn't even bother taking the 11+. But one of his teachers actually said he thought the nearest grammar school would be a good fit and we should sign him up for the 11+, so that's how it came about.

I'm not against comprehensive schools, it's just that the one nearest us currently has a pretty bad reputation. DS has some SEN and I've heard they aren't very good for that. I assumed we'd just have to make do with it anyway, but then this teacher made us think maybe not.

Distance is a factor because DS doesn't travel very well. He gets bad motion sickness, and I think taking the bus or even driving to some of the further away schools every day would probably cancel out any gains made by the school being better than the closer one. (And is also why he won't be studying 11+ on the flight 😂)

I suppose it depends if the child enjoys it. If someone was making their child train for an elite sport at the expense of holidays and it wasn't the child's dream then we might well be commenting that this isn't right, living through the child etc. If the child enjoys the academic prep than great if not then let them have a break.

Go on holiday! If he doesn’t know it now another week won’t make much difference. Why do you think the non grammar school wouldn’t suit him?

He will benefit from recharging and refreshing during a holiday.

You had better believe it.
certain families will make their kids take the 11 + in several areas and will move if the kid passes or make the kids travel several hours a day.
I have seen messages from parents, who have only just moved to this country, saying that their kid has to go to a grammar school as friends say it is the only type of school worth going to.

This is bonkers. I went to grammar school in the 80s and nobody did any preparation. The only ones who probably did were the private school kids who got places & the majority found it hard to keep up.

What on earth will DH be like when it's GCSE?