Falling birth rate v immigration UK

[TripBalzac]

I’m missing something obvious, probably, but why isn’t immigration the solution to the falling birth rate?

Also a lot of the cultures coming in are more misogynistic. British men are now copying and also being more misogynistic (although some of this to do with internet.)

@Halfemptyhalfling or maybe those migrants are just trying to integrate with their new home by adopting the local cultural norms

That's irrelevant to the point I was making. I was responding to a poster who said immigration had been a trickle before 2000 (clearly unaware of the immigration levels of the 1950s) and that we haven't been a melting pot for thousands of years. Our DNA would say otherwise.

It’s not really countering the pp, as there is such a thing as a culture specific to here.

But what are you arguing for with the example of DNA?

An always increasing number of people?

Sorry I don't really understand what you're saying. I'm not arguing for anything. I was pointing out that she was wrong.

They probably assume you are not paying for them yourselves.

I am berated for being “selfish” for not having kids yet had I become a single mother than would be selfish too. I just learned to ignore said people.

I have read that even the “mass migration” that took place of the windrush years was still, comparatively speaking, fairly small.

The level of immigration before 2000 was tiny compared to what we have today.

I don’t see invading Vikings or whomever as really comparable.

It wasn’t organised immigration in the sense of today, the pp made sense

Surely it was far worse because they came here to conquer and rule us? The Vikings and Anglo saxons even fought each other for control of Britain.
A bit different to people coming here to work or asylum seekers claiming £30 a week (or whatever) until they're allowed to work legally.

Youre taking about history, events that happened over 1000 years ago. That is irrelevant to what is going on now.

The only reason I started talking about events that happened over a thousand years ago is because you stated that we weren't a "melting pot" for thousands of years and immigration was only a trickle before 2000. I was responding to you that we have been mixing cultures and DNA for thousands of years.

It’s not really relevant. I mean what is your outcome, let everyone in because of the Vikings?

And which countries don’t have this in their past. It’s a red herring at this point

The problem is, increasingly over the past 20 years, we haven't wanted a 'working class'. We treat low-wage jobs with increasing distain. Everybody's kids have to go to uni so they don't end up working in factories/cafes/as carers.

The post-Thatcherite attitude is you have failed if you don't have a profession. So we now have at least two generations of children who think such work is beneath them, because that's what they have been told. In addition, it's become impossible to live on the lowest wages.

White British kids don't want the work. Why would they, when the pride in doing an honest day's work has been slowly stripped away? When you can't even afford a bedsit on the wages without working silly hours?

Immigrants haven't taken our jobs. We have given them away through a culture of expectation. Expectation that jobs people once did their whole lives should now only be stop-gaps/student work. Expectation that we should all be striving to earn above the minimum, driven increasingly by the fact we can't live on the minimum.

Leaving aside the cost of general living, there's a far greater expectation now that we should all live to what would once have been a middle-class standard. Holidays every year, etc.

Whilst people might not like the migration, at the same time they don't want to fill the gaps migration is filling at the lower level. They don't even want to fill in the gaps at the higher level, such as doctors and dentists, because if you can do those things, you are capable of doing other things which incur less debt at uni and pay more.

As a society, we have stopped valuing certain jobs/professions. Whilst it has increasingly become about COL, the attitude started much before this.

I say this as someone who has always been a low-earner, who started working when it was possible for me, a factory floor worker at 18, to rent a flat on my own.

We have sold our industry. We have got stuck in the model of 'betterment' to the point where our kids would rather sit on their arses until they get the career they now expect.

Again, I'm not arguing for letting everyone in. I'm not saying we're unique.I was simply correcting a post that was factually incorrect about our immigration history.
Anyway, I've made my point. I know from previous experience that it's boring when posts descend into arguments between two or three posters, so I'll bow out.

Viking invaders had stopped by 1200 or earlier. The Normans 1066. So from at least 1200 not a sizeable number of immigrants. Oh the Huguenots were not huge. By Celtic do you mean Irish fleeing the potato famine?

AI is another possible solution...did anyone see Elon's robot at the weekend, which is apparently capable of doing all the boring and monotous jobs and can even walk the dog!

For at least 18 years they won't contribute they will be takers. Then it will take many years before they repay all the money the state has paid for them on education, health etc. Many may never break even. Some might eventually be contributors as with all DC.

Only if we can choose the people with the required skills.

Oh yes - and people who will be net contributors to the economy.

That’s the same whether children are born to “indigenous” Britons or immigrant children though.

That's why I said 'as with all dc'.

This FT price is paywalled but the audio is still free when I listened to it.

Dr Alice Evans from Kings college London with the FT data maven John Burn Murdoch.

https://www.ft.com/content/5b2c0df4-6515-4678-a650-74f2f3f77d60

Birthrates falling in underdeveloped countries as well. Actually linked to smartphone use.

Also that with current birthrates being so low, the only way current levels of spending could be maintained is by massively increasing taxes on working age population, or having immigration to the extent of 40% of the entire population, which is frankly not sustainable