Falling birth rate v immigration UK

[TripBalzac]

I’m missing something obvious, probably, but why isn’t immigration the solution to the falling birth rate?

I don't think this is of great concern to most. The fact is that if you have a policy of unlimited immigration then you can guarantee economic prosperity because there are endless consumers and more potential tax revenue. As the poster above says, happily people from the Third World are content to live in what we might think are squalid conditions for the NMW. All we have to do is maintain a continual supply of people from poverty stricken backgrounds and our pensions and care home needs will be taken care of.

During the last 20 or so years of our membership of the eu, we had unlimited migration. This lead to a suppression of wages, a lack of skilled British people when the European workers returned home because of covid.

Immigration usually affects the poorest in our society, putting pressure on housing supplies and work opportunities.

therefore we need to adopt a model similar to Australia in only allowing immigrants in for jobs which there are vacancies that can't be filled

This sounds unlikely to me, as immigrants to the UK come from numerous different countries. Which group/culture is going to outnumber us? It isn’t “us” versus “them”!

14.4% of our current population are migrants from other countries, and it's already causing ructions (Brexit/Reform, etc). I can't see us being happy with it rising further.

I also think the hand-wringing at our falling birth rate is overdone. We're doing better than Malta, Spain, Germany, Sweden and Switzerland. Yes, there will be problems ahead as we are seeing an increase in over-80's who typically have high health and care needs, but we've got the brains and resources to solve that.

The fact is that if you have a policy of unlimited immigration then you can guarantee economic prosperity because there are endless consumers and more potential tax revenue.

That only looks good on paper. In reality it leads to housing shortages, public service shortages and social tensions.

We need fewer people on this earth not more. We have ruined it enough already.

Because I want my indigenous culture to continue.

Ethnic Brits are going to become like Australian Aboriginal people or Native American people.

Can't we learn from the mistakes of the past.

Some multiculturalism is good and leads to an open forward thinking society but migration at today's rates is an invasion.

Within the decade half of English primary school pupils will be born outside the UK. So in 80 years most of the population will have been born outside the UK?!

I am curious about AI and how it will present resolution to the aging population dilemma.

A lot of people think a falling birth rate is a good thing. Let's face it, the world doesn't need more humans/pollution/mouths to feed etc.

The issue is that an aging population needs doctors and cleaners and carers, and there aren't enough young people to fill all the posts. Nor enough people to pay into the pension scheme.

Importing a workforce from somewhere else only solves the problem partially because a) anyone living in a society soon adopts those societal norms, and b) because a fair proportion of immigrants return home after several years, so have no long term impact.

Plus there are cultural issues - religion, schooling etc

I think the falling birth rate is probably (for some people) to do with the state of this country and the way things are. Out eldest and several of her friends all in their early 30’s have decided against having children due to not wanting to bring children into this craziness.

Childcare costs are also absolutely crippling. There was a poster a couple of days ago paying £1700 a month for one child. Who can afford that for two or three over several years?

The solution to a falling birth rate is creating conditions where people can have children. Shit housing, wages and expensive childcare and everything else is a bit prohibitive. I wouldn't have had kids knowing what I do now, as much as I love them. They have a shit future ahead of them and one of them is disabled and treated ike shit by society. Most younger people have had a longer run of the shit than me, so have decided not to have kids all together. Don't expect a pension and healthcare when you are older.

I'm also not against immigration, but if we have loads of young adults not working without the skills to get decent paid work we have failed them as a country. People from abroad plugging the gaps is not a solution to that.

My friend has just been offered 4 days a week for just shy of £2,000!

No not true. We just need fewer dickheads running the planet for their own benefit.

What we need is for people to come to the UK to do the jobs that we have a vacancy for and then leave when they are done. If the potential worker brings a partner who doesn’t work, or dependents then they will need a family home, use the NHS, schools etc, all of which are in short supply (especially in the south east where I am). It would be worth paying two or three times the going rate to someone to come here as a single person rather than to come as a family.

Exactly rather than importing more people who also require housing and may have children

I want the country to embrace the falling birth rate and have a long-term plan to bring AI into many workforces. Stop concreting over the countryside and aim for a gradually reducing population. Fewer workers will result in increased wages. This could bring a better quality of life for everyone, and good for the planet too.

Unfortunately no political party thinks more than a few years ahead. I think maybe the Green Party (or the old Ecology Party?) used to favour managed population reduction for environmental reasons.

Sounds good but AI can’t wipe people’s arses. And AI uses enormous amounts of energy and water. It is no answer and will likely lead to falling wages not rising ones because it will be able to do the higher value roles but will never be able to change a nappy.

And people wonder why the voting population are drawn to the extreme right 🤣 ignore people's concerns and they'll rightly or wrongly go further right

Immigration to make up for a falling birth rate makes sense if the immigrants are net contributors. But when immigrants themselves are costing the existing taxpayer in the last few years since they don’t earn enough to support themselves, it’s just a disaster.

And they want to,bring their family which is understandable

They also need social housing some of the time

Every day, I work with people whose bodies are packing up on them due to poor health behaviours: smoking, drinking (excessively), poor diet, lack of physical activity, mental health issues, and so on. Sometimes, the behaviours are self-inflicted, and sometimes, they are not. Keeping people healthier for a lot longer on average (there will always be those unlucky enough to get genetic diseases) would make a big difference and reduce the demand for medical care, nursing homes, etc. However, this requires a top-down approach, and governments would rather bring in cheap labour than improve their citizens' overall quality of life.

I was struck looking at population growth and immigration statistics recently, by how little our population in growing year on year and how sharply it would be falling without immigration.

It certainly seems to undercut the argument that high immigration is straining our infrastructure. We're clearly just not adequately investing in our infrastructure if we cannot accommodate marginal annual population growth.

As a working person, I don't want to live in a society with a shrinking population, which would increase the tax burden on me. If the birth rate is low because people are struggling economically then significantly cutting immigration is only going to exacerbate that.

I'm all for reforming the economy in a manner that makes people's lives more comfortable so that they feel they can support larger families but, until that radical change comes (and I am not holding my breath), we need immigration.

We shouldn’t rely on importing humans in from poor countries to do our labour. Those countries also need their working age citizens! Many middle and poor income countries also have falling birth rates - you’d be surprised! There are ethical considerations too.

Agree that immigration is definitely an ongoing part of the picture, but we simultaneously need to encourage people already in the UK to have more children - by making positive conditions to incentivise this