Staying at home with kids IS a contribution and it is also WORK

[carshaker]

A lot of people don't respect a mum who's ' just at home '. Like she's not really contributing to the family.

The reality is though, that it's very much a big contribution, even if it's not financial.

If you took away the financial risk of staying home long term, what's the issue with it? Why is it considered by many ( especially women ), less than ?

If this is a woman's choice, what's the issue ?

That criticism was a bit desperate. Scraping the bottom of the sahm barrel!

I think also in a SAHM scenario people become used to a lifestyle and way of living that is not able to be maintained upon a relationship ending , and that becomes a shock the sudden need to financially support yourself with no outside world career history. But the partner / wife/ husband can still have that lifestyle as they have a career to maintain it.

I am seeing this play out now in couples who have split up when the kids have gone to university. It’s not good for these women at all.

I have helped sahms with their orgniasation. My sahm friends used to turn to me when asking about school events etc. Despite me working FT! Because I was super-efficient and top of everything because I had to be. I worked extremely hard to make sure my work and home lives ran smoothly and my kids didn’t suffer. My lovely sahm friends were in awe ;-)

When you have no choice but to be efficient, you rise to the occasion.

PS I would pay cash into my account via the post office at the weekend. We can find ways to make it work.

If we were in the fairytale position of being able to ignore finances I wonder how many men vs how many women would to choose to stay home. I suspect, and I may be wrong, that there is a genetic element that means women are more inclined to want to be at home with the kids

It would be interesting to see if there is a split along male/female lines of giving up work when there is no social stigma in doing so as it doesn’t rely on having to live off another’s earnings.

I suspect most people of both sexes quit their job if there’s a huge lottery win for example. There is massive social expectation that men don’t live off women’s earnings. Even on mumsnet which is quite progressive in some ways men not working js treated with lots of suspicion. Also women get much much more judged for any domestic failure (real or perceived).

My view is that this is what’s driving the fact that it’s mostly women who are the SAHP in a heterosexual partnership. Rather than women being genetically programmed to want to be at home.

We both work, we have two children who both have additional needs, we’re both able to sort out prescription issues, we can both transfer money on our phones, we can both either food shop online, or do it after work withing 30-40 minutes including going to more than one shop.

What are all these appointments and paper work that the sheer volumn is incredible? We have SALT, audiologist, play therapist, CP consultant and physio, appointments and letters etc are nowhere near an incredible amount.

This is an awful judgey response!

First, when you go out to work, do your kids just sit at home alone? No, you pay for full time care, so you pay other people to do the childcare. Then presumably you also have a cleaner, and so on. So you don't 'do both'.

Secondly, where does any woman get off judging other women for their choices? That's not feminism, that's competing with other women and putting other women down in a society that already does way too much of that.

To the OP hell yes, it is work. It's just that society doesn't appreciate it.

Why? That he's not agreeing to slog his guts out so she can stay at home? That they might have previously had an agreement that she wants to renenge in? Or merely that he is a man?

Is it? Or is it a response to the OPs question Why is it considered by many ( especially women ), less than ?. I made no judgement all I said was I thought that was why people were negative about SAHMs or indeed non-working women in general. I think @Workoutinthepark it isn’t un-feminist to recognise WHY people might think what they think.

I'm not sure why people care what others think of their life choices. Do you really need a round of applause for how you live?

You sound VERY judgey, saying things like 'do you need a round of applause for how you live?' Thats an awful comment.

Women shouldn't be infighting. We live in a terribly misogynistic world where women get criticised put down and devalued, so many get competitive and also put eachother down. You can see that on this thread alone. Different choices are just that, not 'better'.

I work in an industry where the gold standard is to build people UP and it's lovely. Work full time, work part time, SAHM, I don't care, its not even my business, I just care you feel valued as damn right I should. I know you'll be judged for whatever you're doing, though, because women are.

We get it in the neck from society all the time. The least we can do is have each others back.

You sound VERY judgey, saying things like 'do you need a round of applause for how you live?' Thats an awful comment. I haven’t made any judgement on people’s choices though have I? I don’t particularly feel people judge women for how they spend their days. If you look outside of yourself for praise for going to work or not then you give people an invitation to applaud or boo your choice.

I have done both. I was a SAHM until my youngest started school. I now work and can categorically say that it was much easier being a SAHM then balancing all the jobs I did before around a paying job. I’m still a 24/7 parent as we all are, whether we work or are at home. I just have much fewer hours to get my household jobs done than I did when I was home all day. Both my kids have special needs so I’ve had to find a job that is very flexible and fits around their needs, which means I’m trapped in a low paid job and feel completely under valued. You aren’t valued as much by society when you are a SAHM or in my current low paid yet highly skilled job.
Women aren’t valued as much as they should be and this won’t change until we see more men taking on a SAHP role.

I was a sahm for a few years and it was hard work! Now I struggle to get everything done and feel like I'm constantly playing catch up with keeping the house.

I was on the phone to the doctors three times trying to sort it, the first time I was cut off, each time I was in a queue for 30 minutes trying to get through. I tried phoning the pharmacy after I had went home from the first visit, I couldn't get through, no one was answering so I had to go there. I eventually had to phone the doctors whilst at the pharmacy and it took the Person in charge of the receptionist speaking to them to get any action out of them. The doctors wouldn't reissue the prescription and it was nearing end of the day.

Online shopping doesn't work when you've to go to several different shops that have the items you need because of the coeliac diease and childs autism (limited what he will eat) and check ingredients. He has cereal from one shop, he will only eat that brand of gluten free cereal and if they don't have any I have to go to another version of that shop but they don't sell the things I need for his packed lunch! Then I have to go to yet a different shop to get the pizza bases he has and a 4th shop to get the meatballs! I can fit on a post it note what he will and can eat.
My child has an Isa, and I didn't want approx £500 lying around the house until I finally use the cash up plus I was going to the shops anyway.

I'm currently a stay at home mother, I have three children with autism but will start work again next year once my youngest starts high school.
Between us, in last two months we've had around 15 doctors and hospital appointments, most of which were for me! How many workplaces will put up with that?

Whilst I get this point I also find it incredibly sad that there is the assumption that women are never going to have careers worth more than childcare.. I paid for childcare, I now pay for school fees, I am still a considerable net contributor to the household… It should be the norm that women are as capable, and will have the opportunities to earn enough, not to have to make a financial choice but a personal one. Why do we assume men will always be the ones where it isn’t a financial choice? Make whichever choice you want, I won’t judge anyone for it unless you assume I am not raising my daughter because I work, but let’s aim for a point where our daughters can make that choice not because they “aren’t worth more than childcare costs” or because they “have to enable their husbands to pursue their career”… Only then is it really is a choice.

The ingrained patriarchal world view is strong on this thread. Scoffing that women’s unseen efforts are not “proper” work because no money changes hands. Women are so devalued it’s sad.

How anyone who has ever had children can argue with a straight face that looking after babies and young children is not “work” absolutely baffles me. If you go out to work you need to pay someone else to do it. Are nursery workers not working then?

I feel so lucky with my DH. He certainly has his faults but he had absolutely no qualms being a SAHD for a year, and then taking a part-time job working around my hours. Then I took a less demanding job for a bit so he could build up his career. At no point was it assumed that I would give up my career to take care of our DD.

And guess what, men can be every bit as good at doing the household and being a parent, and he has an amazing bond with our DD. Why shouldn't men want to be SAHD too?

If you go out to work you need to pay someone else to do it. Are nursery workers not working then?

I don’t pay anyone else to do it and I work full time.

So you leave your toddlers on their own? Or dad or granny does that work.

Oh and the care home crisis is caused by women not doing that “work” either so people now have to hand over the value of their house to pay others what women used to do.

Of course men can also be stay at home dads.
I think it's great. You're doing what makes sense for your family..

Yes their dad does the childcare. I obviously have nothing against SAHP given I live with one but the post I was replying too just shows how ingrained it is that childcare is a woman’s duty. Do you think anyone ever criticises career boys for having to have someone else take care of their children? No because people assume it’s nothing to do with men.

Well then you are extremely fortunate. I can’t remember if it was you or another poster who worked opposite shifts to their husband so their child wasn’t looked after my anyone by a parent, but for most people this is unworkable.

Oh and the care home crisis is caused by women not doing that “work” either so people now have to hand over the value of their house to pay others what women used to do

This is true but what’s your idea for a solution. Shouldn’t men step up to some caring responsibilities rather than women not being able to work?

It’s not bullying to not want to be the sole financial provider. The husband’s concerns are valid, if the poster leaves the workforce and has no income the likely scenario is that he needs to work more whether that’s extra shifts or pressure to do overtime therefore meaning he would see his kids even less.
Its not only women who want to see their kids

You end up seeing it all the time, when there is only one earner they tend to work long hours in order to provide.

I don't understand the battle here.

Some working parents have a hard life some don't.

Some sahp have a hard life some don't

Arguing who has it worse is ridiculous we all have our own individual situation, experience and coping skills

This is the ideal for the patriarchy women fighting each other

@Coffeerum

You know what I see a LOT. Things not being anywhere close to 50-50, even when women are working full time.

There are these fictional men all over Mumsnet that actually contribute properly to mental load and all that, but I know of none of them in real life.

Usually, the women I know, work really hard and then have to carry most, if not all of the house and child burden too.

A lot of husbands want it both ways. They want the woman to work and they want the woman to be responsible for most of the house and child care.

It's not acceptable. I don't feel sorry for those husbands if the woman says, stuff it- I'll stay home and you can fucking pay for everything.