Staying at home with kids IS a contribution and it is also WORK

[carshaker]

A lot of people don't respect a mum who's ' just at home '. Like she's not really contributing to the family.

The reality is though, that it's very much a big contribution, even if it's not financial.

If you took away the financial risk of staying home long term, what's the issue with it? Why is it considered by many ( especially women ), less than ?

If this is a woman's choice, what's the issue ?

But what does that look like?

Your thread is about how people should respect sahm. And now how they should support them.

The whole ‘it’s so sad people you don’t know don’t value you’ is bizarre to me.

I don’t expect anyone outside my company to relaxer or support my job. Or anyone outside my family to care about what I do for my family. I don’t expect respect automatically, for my job title or parental status

The whole concept is alien to me.

That's true.

I also don't get the whole thing about putting children into child care being such a horrid thing.

It takes a village doesn't it ? It doesn't just take mum. It's not bad for kids to have several adults looking after them.

Often, being looked after by several adults is beneficial because their emotional resources aren't constantly depleted, which can be the case if you're always on your own looking after young kids. I've been there. Obviously these are generalisations and based on personal experiences. But Gabor Mate talks about something similar.

I'm a way better mum when I'm doing it with other adults and can have breaks. Rather than being absolutely frazzled by myself all the time.

Again, personal opinion.

I totally respect some women can totally do this alone and don't feel how I do/ have.

@ShouldhavebeencalledAppollo well it definitely shouldn't look as judgemental as the posts on here that I see A LOT. Not just on this thread.

I am running my own business now but when my first one was a baby, I had a super stressful, high flying job in a big corp that I had to pull 60+ hours a week. I had 3 male colleagues same level as me, and my boss was also a man who all had SAHW. None of these men had to take a day off when kids were ill. No home responsibility to speak of. I still had to and wanted to be with my baby who was ill. I was late for 8am briefing once (notified and signed off) and my male colleague told me maybe I wasn't very serious about my job. That I better suited a job that is more 'female friendly'.

This happens again and again that professional women get penalised for having a family ( and career) whereas men, just keeps on succeeding with his wife facilitating them.

Equality for our girls will never be achieved if men get this kind of support in domestic setting.

I think there are double standards for men and women - that go both ways.

Woman goes back to work when her DC are months old - she gets judged, why have kids if you're not going to look after them.
Man goes back when his DC are days old - no one bats an eyelid.

Woman stays at home with a toddler or pre schooler - she's lazy, not contributing etc.
Man stays at home with a toddler or preschooler - he's treated as some sort of superhero!

However down the line, mum stays at home with much older kids, goes to the gym, reads, does gardening, pursues hobbies etc - MN - good for you, we'd all like to do this.
Man stays at home, plays computer games, goes to the gym etc - MN - he's a cocklodger!

So you don’t know what it looks like?

You want people to do something but don’t actually know what they want to do?

There’s judgement flying all over from people on all different sides of this discussion. The majority are Not judgmental. It really depend on where you focus

But people are always going to be judgmental on an internet forum. You came to the internet, where people are going to be more blunt in their responses to tell people they should respect and support stay at home mums more but don’t know what they would do. Invited debate on the issue.

Then complaining people, gave their opinion? By starting this thread you invited the debate? The things written here about sahp or working mums would not be here if you hadn’t started the thread.

Again, why does anyone (working if sahp) need validation from anyone outside their home?

@ShouldhavebeencalledAppollo but that's exactly why I post on an anonymous forum, because the real opinions come out.

My opinion is that we should support each other and stop judging each other.

A lot of posts are judgmental on either side and I don't agree with that.

I hope you punched him in the face … female friendly.

Or at least put laxatives in his coffee. Knob.

No one is duty bound to respect, support or endorse another person’s decision, especially complete strangers. I respect everyone’s basic human rights to live free from discrimination and persecution and their freedom to make whatever life choices they think are best. At the same time, people are allowed opinions and they won’t always be positive. No, they shouldn’t use their opinions to denigrate and bully others out in the real world but on an anonymous forum where you invited people to air their views then yes, they’re entitled to do that even if those views are unpalatable or unpleasant to you.

If the definition of work is an 'activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result', then it's hard to argue that being a SAHP doing domestic chores and childcare isn't work.

I think though some people are actually debating a different question which is whether the work involved with staying at home looking after your children and the home is of equivalent value to the work undertaken as part of someone's paid employment. This is of course completely impossible to answer definitively as there are so many different variables.

To begin with, there is a huge variation in what SAHPs. If you are a SAHP to 6 children with SEN that homeschools, runs a massive home and cooks from scratch then this would be very different to a SAHP with one school ages NT child that looks after a small terraced house and relies heavily on convenience food. Also those in paid employment are obviously doing completely different things too. An overworked teacher without enough hours in the day to get everything done will have a very different working experience to an under utilised secretary that man's a not particularly busy desk.

There is also the question of standards. I often read on MN how someone has cleaned their house but what do they mean by that? Some people will declare they have done this when they have whipped a hoover around, done some laundry and wiped the surfaces down. Others could spend quadruple that amount of time dusting, deep cleaning the bathroom and tidying the children's toys away properly. Some would say that the quick clean is good enough and anything else is a luxury/inefficient, whilst others value a cleaner house and think the additional hours are time well spent. This is why you always get statements from posters suggesting that they do everything that a SAHPs does and work.

So you wanted an opinions. But also didn’t really?

you wanted people to debate it by giving you the response you feel is acceptable.

Thats what the majority do most of the time. I have had some really awful comments from women, especially those that were sahp with older kids kids who were now working. And my kids didn’t even go in child care until they did half days at nursery the year before full time school. I can’t imagine what they said to people using paid child care.

But I don’t assume most people who are sahp or who were sahp are going to think the same way as those women. and most sahp don’t say these awful things.

Even if they think them but don’t say them to me, what business is it of mine? It’s not my problem until they actually say it to me. If they do, they get a short Response then I move on because I don’t need them to respect my choices, respect me for doing it, support my choices or support me working.

and it’s the same the other way round.

By starting the thread, you have invited people to make their opinion public. Then complaining it’s not what you want. And can’t explain what you actually want.

Some people will always be judgemental about what other people are doing. That’s life. But you don’t need to invite people to share those judgments.

@ShouldhavebeencalledAppollo

By starting the thread, you have invited people to make their opinion public. Then complaining it’s not what you want. And can’t explain what you actually want

This is so boring really.

It's a discussion and I've stated my opinion and it hasn't changed. I haven't really ' complained '. I've just stated what I think. No point in complaining I started a thread that you commented on ? Why do you even care then ? Why bother to comment ? ( this part of my comment is as useless as you questioning why I even posted ).

It's been a really great discussion and I've enjoyed reading different points of view

I clearly want less judgement and more support for all women from women, which I've said all along.

i think the OP is a troll, and some of the comments are eye opening and are from a narrow group of people who are in incredibly high paying job or have had wealth passed down to them.

There are 3 types of SAHM
stay home because it’s too expensive to get suitable child care or they are getting benefits and it doesn’t make sense to work or they are rich / hubby earns lots. The latter are a tiny minority, a loud minority, but still a minority.

Why??

Agreed!

SAHM raised by parents who both worked full time. I refuse to engage in these debates as it devalues how hard ALL mothers work, also everyone has different situations. There are definitely defensive/jealous women with chips on their shoulders on both sides. Just be happy with your choice and respect others choices. And for those who regret their choice or don’t feel they had a choice then they have my sympathy but it doesn’t give them the right to spit bile over others.

I really wanted to but instead went to HR. He still complained to his mates in the company about me that I can't take his jokes or 'constructive' criticism - what?!! - seriously. That I am uptight.

Honestly that was 10 years ago but not much changed I am afraid.

@Marblessolveeverything

This absolutely annoys the hell out of me. If a woman chooses to not work outside the home so be it, but to have the narrative of for the husband makes my blood boil

Me too. I have absolutely nothing whatsoever against women choosing to remain at home with their children: all power to you if you can make it work and I can completely understand your perspective.

But as a working single mother in a senior job who has done this without any support whatsoever from anyone on the domestic front I find it contemptible that so many people have drunk the Kool Aid about “he needs me”.

He seriously doesn’t. Do it if it makes sense but don’t kid yourself with this “behind every great man is a great woman” shite. Unless your husband is a candidate for Prime Minister or the lead singer in a band he is perfectly capable of doing some domestic chores and just chooses not to.

But when you have retired or won / inherited a large sum of money, you don’t claim to be ‘working’. I literally don’t care what anyone else’s choices are for their family but the original question was about if it was working or making a financial contribution (by saving on childcare).

The financial contribution part assumes that the amount earned matches the amount spent on childcare. In that case, it doesn't save money, but just offsets the cost. If you are a mother who earns quite a bit more than you spend on childcare, it is indeed a loss to the family pot to stay at home.

But I wanted to go part time/ be a SAHM. (Have done both as well as FT). My husband didn’t, and it was lucky he didn’t because we couldn’t have afforded for him to. That doesn’t mean he’s not a good parent, just like working mums, he didn’t want to be at home full time with kids, and that’s fine. I did. We’re lucky we were able to have a choice.

And for everyone saying SAHMs are not making a financial contribution- in our case it’s basic maths. We would be financially worse off if I was currently working, and yes that takes into account any kind of career progression, pension etc. It would be costing us money for me to work outside the home (currently). And although it IS hard, I also (mostly) love being a SAHM (at the moment). That choice (and I’m aware I’m lucky to have that choice) should be respected.

Because you are telling women to support other women. Telling them to respect other women. Based on what they have chosen to do with their lives.

Except you don’t know what support they need. Or how it looks to respect a sahp. Compared to respecting just anyone else in society.

You are seemingly bother than women’s opinions, despite inviting them. So concerned about how people might feel after reading comments you invited.

How is ‘come one let’s have a sahm vs wohm debate, under guise of let’s respect one side more. Share your personal opinions’ actually helping? How has it made anyone feel better?’ Pushing for less judgement?

It was goady. You know it was goady.

Most of the women I know (average salary or less) with kids, work full time, part time or stop working during some years meanwhile the kids are very little because financially and logistically is better for the family unit. If you got 3 kids and a childcare bill of 1500 pounds a month you have to earn more than that take home to make it profitable, and even if you earn a bit more it may not be worth the stress of sustaining both, work and childcare for a few hundreds, that depends of the family money and the couple arrangements.
Being a SAHM now a days is not a kind of romantic choice because of nurture, motherhood etc etc. It is in most cases a practical financial choice.

There are exception:

When the partner earns really good money that the woman stay as SAHM, because she doesn't have to work to earn money, money comes just very fluently from one end.

Cases when the SAHM is kind of "forced" due to disabilities, caring to the older people in the family, kids with special needs, more than three kids etc etc.

For some women the decision of being a SAHM is practical, for others is kind of imposed. In my opinion only a a small percentage can made the decision freely.

I don’t know any mothers who don’t work full time. Everyone in DT’s classes had two full time working parents. Same in our extended family.

Whats worrying is the assumption (in the vast majority of cases), is it that in families where one parent becomes a SAHP, it’s the women who takes this role as she is the lower earner - why ?? Women should be having higher aspirations - something wrong in education.