Page 27 | Staying at home with kids IS a contribution and it is also WORK

carshaker · 2024-06-30T07:00:30+00:00

A lot of people don't respect a mum who's ' just at home '. Like she's not really contributing to the family. The reality is though, that it's very much a big contribution, even if it's not financial. If you took away the financial risk of staying home long term, what's the issue with it? Why is it considered by many ( especially women ), less than ? If this is a woman's choice, what's the issue ?

Runnerinthenight · 30/06/2024 17:06

Rubyupbeat · 30/06/2024 16:16

@DDoreenonTill8
Well that's true in my case, I would never have wanted anyone bringing up my children. And yes carers do bring them up partly, alongside the parent. I wasn't going to let that happen.

Do you include teachers in this stupid sweeping generalisation then?

DallasCC · 30/06/2024 17:07

NeedToChangeName · 30/06/2024 13:18

I hate the "man with a big job / SAHM" model. It's terrible for equality

In the past, it was a full time job raising a family and keeping the house. Now, it really isn't, when we have eg washing machines, fridges, hoovers ...

Hate this.

ArseholeCatIsABlackAndWhiteCat · 30/06/2024 17:09

@Willyoujustbequiet the thread started with a generalisation though. That staying at home with the kids is work. All of it. From the druggie mum that's barely even awake and aware, to the hemp mums growing their own veg and baking their own bread , to the ones that spend their day drinking tea and watching telly and having friends over, to the ones that damn right kill themselves catering everything for everyone, to the mums of kids with disabilities, to the mums that have a live in nanny and a cleaner , and so on.

So when you point out that a certain group might be working harder than others(which I agree) the whole premise becomes invalid. Because not all staying at home with kids is the same.

Zone2NorthLondon · 30/06/2024 17:10

MichaelScottPaperCompany1 · 30/06/2024 16:06

To be clear- I’ve not tried to make a case for it being a job. I’m refuting the claims that it’s not hard work.

I shouldn’t have used the word job- I wasn’t using it in the technical sense of the word, I obviously understand it isn’t paid employment. A better way to word what I said would have been “a SAHP’s work or task”.

What I was trying to get at was the idea that the day to day life of a SAHP isn’t really work or isn’t hard work and therefore those who do it seem to be viewed inferiorly. At least that’s the vibe I’m picking up from this thread. And I find it hard to believe a person who looks after someone else’s children for 8 hours a day would receive the same criticism. However, it sounds like they’re not worthy of the same criticism because they’re receiving monetary compensation and the accountability that comes with it, and in some cases have qualifications.

One poster said being a SAHP is “Basically doing whatever the fuck you want ,when you want , how you want and you're the only one that sets your priorities.” If this is the kind of view that people hold of SAHPs there isn’t any sense in even engaging in a back and forth. For the record, I am not a SAHP but have friends who are and these kind of comments are just utterly deluded and rude.

Do stop paraphrasing to bolster your own post No poster said sahm do whatever the fuck they want. You’re making things up for effect. In essence rabble rousing to elicit indignant responses

I actually said sahp is unregulated and not mandatorily regulated. The quality of parenting is individually variable

Runnerinthenight · 30/06/2024 17:10

Willyoujustbequiet · 30/06/2024 16:46

Sweeping generalisations are foolish.

Some SAHPs are have children with additional needs and are on call 24/7 365 days a year. They work far harder and for less reward than anyone with a job.

Show quote history

We're actually literally talking in general terms - obviously there are exceptions. Your post is foolish.

DallasCC · 30/06/2024 17:11

MangshorJhol · 30/06/2024 13:28

But it’s so interesting that the ‘we are making the best decision we can’ almost always priorities the DH’s career AND his downtime.
It goes like this: my husband is a big shot so he couldn’t possibly:

do the night wake ups
is too tired after work to do the dishes
sort out fancy dress, birthday parties and extra curriculars on weekends
absolutely needs to go on cycling trips with his buddies but I have not had a day or night’s break in years.
when I go out with my friends I have to organise childcare or make sure jobs are done
and god forbid I go away, DH needs detailed instructions to remember the basics and I probably come back to a mess

I don’t understand why so many women find themselves disadvantaged not just financially (because people will say there is more to life than money) but just in their every day living arrangements. If you and your DH truly do value your contribution then why are we not treating it as ‘work’ with husbands genuinely pulling their weight when they come home from their ‘oh so important job’ (which surely can’t be more important than being a parent, right?) . There are over a thousand MN threads every year complaining about this.

And surely we should make decisions based on who is good at something. In my family, DH is amazing at playing with kids. He has patience I don’t. So he plays a lot more with them. I am a significantly better cook. So I cook. I hate laundry and grocery shopping though so DH handles that. And I hate holiday planning so I don’t. It however turned out in lockdown that I am not bad at teaching small children, so I handle homework and their general academic progress. Just because I have a uterus doesn’t mean that I am automatically better that any or every aspect of parenting.

I don't recognise any of this in my life.

Juyjuly32 · 30/06/2024 17:13

carshaker · 30/06/2024 08:10

Yup. Also, she's enabling her husband to work by taking care of the house and kids.

If he didn't have her, he wouldn't be able to work or he'd have to pay someone else to look after his kids and keep the household.

It's totally a contribution to the family.

Show quote history

Thing is its not true though is it? Men are often able to up and leave and still work. Quite disgusting you're saying otherwise it's a man's world.

Runnerinthenight · 30/06/2024 17:14

TheaBrandt · 30/06/2024 16:49

So depressing that women are so conditioned Into accepting that only paid work has any value. Soooo fucking depressing. Dont look after your toddler nor pay someone else to do so - you’ll end up in prison and rightly so, of course it’s work. Dear me.

It's not fucking depressing, it's fucking fact. You refuse to see the distinction. I'm not at work when I am in my home in the evenings.

There are plenty of inadequate parents out there who do end up in prison though sadly it's too late. Like BabyP. Was his mother "working"??!!

ArseholeCatIsABlackAndWhiteCat · 30/06/2024 17:14

coldcallerbaiter · 30/06/2024 17:04

So it boils down to accountability. That is what makes childcare and housekeeping done by others that are not related for pay become work? It’s a stretch. I mean you would end up in jail if you didn’t turn up or neglected. Plenty of ‘workers’ get less sanction than that.

Edited

The threshold is extremely high to actually be jailed or even lose your kids. We're talking serious abuse and neglect here.

Little Jimmy eating take away every day and being the size of a 10 yo at 5? Fuck. All. Happens.

Little Hellen being filthy and full of nits.. again? Fuck.All.Happen.

Little Teddy left in front of the telly in a playpen all day? Fuck. All. Happens.

Yes there is a bare minimum that you have to do to not end up with your kids in care or you in jail, but that's so frikking low it's not even in the same realm as work.

Runnerinthenight · 30/06/2024 17:15

DallasCC · 30/06/2024 17:11

I don't recognise any of this in my life.

Show quote history

Then you have a husband problem!!

MichaelScottPaperCompany1 · 30/06/2024 17:15

ArseholeCatIsABlackAndWhiteCat · 30/06/2024 17:09

@Willyoujustbequiet the thread started with a generalisation though. That staying at home with the kids is work. All of it. From the druggie mum that's barely even awake and aware, to the hemp mums growing their own veg and baking their own bread , to the ones that spend their day drinking tea and watching telly and having friends over, to the ones that damn right kill themselves catering everything for everyone, to the mums of kids with disabilities, to the mums that have a live in nanny and a cleaner , and so on.

So when you point out that a certain group might be working harder than others(which I agree) the whole premise becomes invalid. Because not all staying at home with kids is the same.

What other type of work on the planet would anyone ever take this attitude with?

Can we say that caring for an elderly parent full-time is hard work?
Can we say that studying full-time is hard work?

Both examples of unpaid labour where there can be varying degrees of effort put in. I struggle to believe any other choice is under this much scrutiny from other women.

Runnerinthenight · 30/06/2024 17:17

Willyoujustbequiet · 30/06/2024 16:50

Is it beyond your thinking that not all families are the same?

It is absolutely work depending on the child/children and the situation.

I find it sad that you can't grasp that.

Show quote history

I find your lack of comprehension sad actually.

Would you describe me as working when I am in my house of an evening? Doubt it.

MichaelScottPaperCompany1 · 30/06/2024 17:17

Zone2NorthLondon · 30/06/2024 17:10

Do stop paraphrasing to bolster your own post No poster said sahm do whatever the fuck they want. You’re making things up for effect. In essence rabble rousing to elicit indignant responses

I actually said sahp is unregulated and not mandatorily regulated. The quality of parenting is individually variable

Show quote history

That was a literal quote from the post. I copied and pasted it.

Willyoujustbequiet · 30/06/2024 17:18

ArseholeCatIsABlackAndWhiteCat · 30/06/2024 17:09

@Willyoujustbequiet the thread started with a generalisation though. That staying at home with the kids is work. All of it. From the druggie mum that's barely even awake and aware, to the hemp mums growing their own veg and baking their own bread , to the ones that spend their day drinking tea and watching telly and having friends over, to the ones that damn right kill themselves catering everything for everyone, to the mums of kids with disabilities, to the mums that have a live in nanny and a cleaner , and so on.

So when you point out that a certain group might be working harder than others(which I agree) the whole premise becomes invalid. Because not all staying at home with kids is the same.

And neither is all employment.

I didn't reply to the OP or offer an opinion on the original post but posts saying it's sad and hilarious that some SAHPs say its work are so blinkered.

It's really not hard to appreciate that familes are all different so comments like the above reflect very poorly on the poster.

coldcallerbaiter · 30/06/2024 17:20

What about sah fathers. Is this just a woman thing?

Runnerinthenight · 30/06/2024 17:20

coldcallerbaiter · 30/06/2024 17:20

What about sah fathers. Is this just a woman thing?

Hen's teeth! I've only ever known two, and one started off due to illness.

Cangar · 30/06/2024 17:20

coldcallerbaiter · 30/06/2024 17:20

What about sah fathers. Is this just a woman thing?

They’re generally described as cocklodgers on mumsnet so definitely don’t fare any better.

coldcallerbaiter · 30/06/2024 17:22

Runnerinthenight · 30/06/2024 17:17

I find your lack of comprehension sad actually.

Would you describe me as working when I am in my house of an evening? Doubt it.

Show quote history

Yes children up to a certain age need feeding, watching, changing at the very least. It is a type of work until they are put to bed.

Missenger · 30/06/2024 17:24

TheaBrandt · 30/06/2024 16:49

So depressing that women are so conditioned Into accepting that only paid work has any value. Soooo fucking depressing. Dont look after your toddler nor pay someone else to do so - you’ll end up in prison and rightly so, of course it’s work. Dear me.

I get staying at home when children are little.

But how is having an occupation or career depressing? What else are you doing when children reach school age?

Also, out of home work doesn't mean office and teams meetings, or having to work in a supermarket doing a job you hate.

It can be farming, working with children and vulnerable people, self employed, working with animals, creative arts etc. or maybe it is an office or supermarket job but you still enjoy it. Can't see how that's depressing.

Willyoujustbequiet · 30/06/2024 17:24

Runnerinthenight · 30/06/2024 17:10

We're actually literally talking in general terms - obviously there are exceptions. Your post is foolish.

Show quote history

Don't be so ridiculous.

I wasn't the one posting ignorant generalisations.

But given that there are estimated to be 240 million disabled children globally they are hardly an exception to any conversation about how hard their parents may work.

Crystallizedring · 30/06/2024 17:26

I have my last day at work tomorrow. I don't have a choice really. We've been told DS won't cope at school and his reduced hours and the possibility of him having a huge meltdown means working isn't an option (at least until EHCP is sorted).
I am looking forward to spending time with DS but I'm also worried about keeping him stimulated and will miss work massively
Pension wise doesn't being at home with your children count towards your pension? Or is that totally wrong? I haven't looked in to it that closely yet

ArseholeCatIsABlackAndWhiteCat · 30/06/2024 17:27

@Willyoujustbequiet I said similar hours ago when the thread just started . It evolved since then to children do better with a SAHP , to working mums don't do as much as they think they do. Poor kids, to you're just outsourcing/not doing as much as me , to a list of "jobs" that the kids/the other parent couldn't do without like dog walking,gardening and chauffeuring. Ridiculousness got ridiculousness back.

Btw , you do realise there are thousands of mums that not only have severely disabled children, but also work. Some are even single mums. Where do they fit on the scale of hard work?

MrsSunshine2b · 30/06/2024 17:27

Imbusytodaysorry · 30/06/2024 12:09

It’s a massive contribution to society.

kids need stability. Both parents at work and who brings up the kids ?
when mum use to be home and dad worked their was fresh cooked food and security, support.

Im not saying mum should be home but Ideally I believe one parent works and one is at home for the kids needs.
People wonder why kids are so unruly because who brings them up ?
Single parents with no choice to work . Who brings their kids up ?
Time needs to go back a little when we didn’t beed two wages for the flashiest car and the big holidays and the most expensive latest gadgets.

We have lost site of what is important in life .

Yeh, this is why people don't like SAHMs.

I used to teach and the kids of working parents were often much better behaved than the kids who had one or both parents unemployed, whether by choice or circumstance.

I found the kids of SAHPs were often (not always) quite entitled and expected everything to be done for them and someone else to fight their battles. If you are SAHPing without helicoptering or snowploughing then that's brilliant and please carry on, but a lot are and it's not doing their kids any favours.

Do you think working parents don't have input into their child's lives, just because maybe for an hour or two after school they are with a childminder or at wraparound care before going home? Do you think we're not still finishing work, then doing homework, making dinner, reading stories in the exact same way that SAHMs are at the same time of day? Do you think fairies come and do our housework because we're at work?

We get home at 6pm and still have to do all the things that you've been doing since you dropped the kids off at school.

Runnerinthenight · 30/06/2024 17:29

Willyoujustbequiet · 30/06/2024 17:24

Don't be so ridiculous.

I wasn't the one posting ignorant generalisations.

But given that there are estimated to be 240 million disabled children globally they are hardly an exception to any conversation about how hard their parents may work.

Show quote history

Did it mention them in the OP?

You're the one being completely ridiculous - you cannot bring the parents into this discussion where the children have special needs, because it's not a choice! How hard is that to comprehend?!! It's not a level playing field - it's a different discussion entirely! The ignorance is wholly on your part!

Zone2NorthLondon · 30/06/2024 17:30

OrwellianTimes · 30/06/2024 16:45

school age. I work full time hours and have no wrap around care or clubs or summer holiday. I work evenings and weekends as needed, DH uses annual leave, we usually get 2-3 days of help from grandparents over the summer. It’s a lot of juggling. I have many friends who do similar.

You absolutely can not work full time with babies and toddlers in tow. I was a SAHM for 3 years during that age range following redundancy and not managing to secure a job in the same field.

That’s why I’ll happily state being a SAHM was easier than working full time whilst being a mum.

It’s all a moot point however, it’s not about who has it hardest, we shouldn’t be pitching against each other. This whole thread is very devisive, and in reality no one cares what anyone else does, and no mother should feel guilty for trying to do what they feel is best for their family.

Show quote history

I work FT with baby and toddler
Both in FT nursery it’s manageable and I like millions of other parents make it work . I returned FT after 6mth maternity leave