Page 25 | Staying at home with kids IS a contribution and it is also WORK

carshaker · 2024-06-30T07:00:30+00:00

A lot of people don't respect a mum who's ' just at home '. Like she's not really contributing to the family. The reality is though, that it's very much a big contribution, even if it's not financial. If you took away the financial risk of staying home long term, what's the issue with it? Why is it considered by many ( especially women ), less than ? If this is a woman's choice, what's the issue ?

Jinglebellrock36 · 30/06/2024 15:15

It is incredibly sad to read women tearing each other to pieces rather than showing each other support. I am a SAHM to my one year old child. It took me a long time to have a child and when I finally got pregnant in my mid thirties I knew that I wanted to spend as much time as possible with my much longed for child whilst they are young. That does not mean that those who work do not want to spend as much time with their child or that their child is any less precious to them. It is not a choice that everyone can or wants to make. It is not something I will be able to do forever, my husband and I have enough joint savings to be able to fund me to be at home probably until our child turns three and starts nursery school. Right now I am savouring every moment and I really don't give a shit what anyone else has to say about it. You can call me a bad feminist, you can say what I am doing is bad for society, that I'm boring, that I'm a martyr, I do not care. I do not have to justify my decisions to anyone.

Runnerinthenight · 30/06/2024 15:16

LookingForEnergy · 30/06/2024 12:48

You're not wrong about him being able to do it without me. He could. He couldn't do it with parenting responsibility, is what I mean. As evidenced by the fact his work had to appoint him a private EA to manage scheduling there. You don't know him.

In all honesty, I think I'd find it easier to manage my career as a single parent than relying on him as a parenting partner.

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Plenty of people have EAs or indeed a full team of staff.

You pretty much are a single parent. How much time does he actually spend with your children? To use the hackneyed argument, why did he have children to outsource them to you?

I just don't understand this mindset because I see myself as at least equal to any man (and superior to a lot of them!!)

MichaelScottPaperCompany1 · 30/06/2024 15:17

Runnerinthenight · 30/06/2024 15:09

Of course it is! Other than the demands of looking after the children, you'd have choices how to spend your time. Go to the shops, go and visit granny, go and feed the ducks yada yada. It's downright lying to say that SAHP are working constantly!!

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“Other than the demands of looking after the children”- this is the key piece of information that you seem to be missing. This is literally what being a SAHP to pre-school age children looks like. Would you have the arrogance to tell a paid nanny of two toddlers that their job is easy or other than looking after the children they can do what they want really? Why would you treat a parent who does this for their own children any differently?

I realise you didn’t outright say it is easy but I’m inferring that you agree with the poster you quoted who said being a SAHP sounds like a breeze.

WindsurfingDreams · 30/06/2024 15:19

carshaker · 30/06/2024 08:13

I would much rather go out to work than stay home with children.

Being a full time house keeper/ cook / cleaner and mum is way more taxing and way more work, than having a full time job. For me anyway.

Also, you're on 24 hours a day. It's definitely work, in my opinion.

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What do you think working parents do with their kids? Lock them in little cages and only let them out for 10 mins a day? All parents are "on" 24/7

Cusheen · 30/06/2024 15:20

Jinglebellrock36 · 30/06/2024 15:15

It is incredibly sad to read women tearing each other to pieces rather than showing each other support. I am a SAHM to my one year old child. It took me a long time to have a child and when I finally got pregnant in my mid thirties I knew that I wanted to spend as much time as possible with my much longed for child whilst they are young. That does not mean that those who work do not want to spend as much time with their child or that their child is any less precious to them. It is not a choice that everyone can or wants to make. It is not something I will be able to do forever, my husband and I have enough joint savings to be able to fund me to be at home probably until our child turns three and starts nursery school. Right now I am savouring every moment and I really don't give a shit what anyone else has to say about it. You can call me a bad feminist, you can say what I am doing is bad for society, that I'm boring, that I'm a martyr, I do not care. I do not have to justify my decisions to anyone.

I do not have to justify my decisions to anyone.

Who is asking you to? You have voluntarily joined an online discussion about it🤷🏼‍♀️

Zone2NorthLondon · 30/06/2024 15:25

Jinglebellrock36 · 30/06/2024 15:15

It is incredibly sad to read women tearing each other to pieces rather than showing each other support. I am a SAHM to my one year old child. It took me a long time to have a child and when I finally got pregnant in my mid thirties I knew that I wanted to spend as much time as possible with my much longed for child whilst they are young. That does not mean that those who work do not want to spend as much time with their child or that their child is any less precious to them. It is not a choice that everyone can or wants to make. It is not something I will be able to do forever, my husband and I have enough joint savings to be able to fund me to be at home probably until our child turns three and starts nursery school. Right now I am savouring every moment and I really don't give a shit what anyone else has to say about it. You can call me a bad feminist, you can say what I am doing is bad for society, that I'm boring, that I'm a martyr, I do not care. I do not have to justify my decisions to anyone.

And yet,here you are telling us you don’t give a shit and don’t care. Justifying your decision. By posting you’re justifying your choice and inviting comment.

TheaBrandt · 30/06/2024 15:27

If it’s not work what are working parents paying thousands of pounds a year to nurseries for then? The good of their health?

Runnerinthenight · 30/06/2024 15:30

justasking111 · 30/06/2024 14:19

Had babies 2 .5 years apart so didn't get a job until youngest at school. But I did everything while we were all at home, playgroups, parks, play dates, cooking, cleaning, gardening. Didn't have a car, so it was miles of walking with a pram, occasionally a bus ride.

Husband worked long hours so they were ready for bed by the time he came home.

I didn't think it easier, just different.

I then got a job 9-3 five days a week, occasionally evenings, that was considered part time despite the fact that I ran the house and garden alone. I did get a car though which I thought the height of luxury 😂

I had babies 22 months apart and still managed to work FT!

MichaelScottPaperCompany1 · 30/06/2024 15:31

TheaBrandt · 30/06/2024 15:27

If it’s not work what are working parents paying thousands of pounds a year to nurseries for then? The good of their health?

Thank you! I’ve shared 2 posts now comparing SAHPs to nannies/childminders and nobody has replied.

I’m keen to understand if they have earned the same judgement from some of these posters. Are their jobs a breeze? Are they able to do whatever they want other than just looking after the children? If no, why is it different when it’s your own family you’re working for?

Runnerinthenight · 30/06/2024 15:33

LookingForEnergy · 30/06/2024 14:49

Well, no, he wasn't doing any of that before we got together and had children. He was living with Mum (who did all the domestic stuff) and we were at university together with the ultimate flexibility in time. We got married, had a baby, he got a job - and that was a big change in structure. No problem, it was just life progressing, but little did we know his executive functioning disabilities. When it was my turn to start my career, do you think he could cope with having to juggle his job around pick ups and sharing anything that made him have to juggle anything? I know he couldn't have coped as a single father of preschoolers but both grandmothers would have happily taken over (though didn't help me at all. I was on my own.) It's not his fault but it's not mine either that these issues exist and impact.

Luckily he's a great person and his struggles are offset with loyalty, love, shared interests and appreciation. He pays into my pension privately, makes sure we have everything we need. He contributes to the household in other ways too. Sometimes we can't have everything in life but I am lucky with him.

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Don't fool yourself. Anyone can learn. Women have to!

Cusheen · 30/06/2024 15:33

I clean my home.
I cook.
I do admin.
I teach my kids stuff.
I dressed their cuts and gave them meds when little.

I am not working as a cleaner, a chef, a secretary, a teacher or a nurse.

My home life has its own rhythms and emotions and nobody is monitoring me, formally appraising me or paying me. I just do the stuff I need to do and make my own decisions.

At work I am guided by my employer, and have to fulfil certain roles to be paid. I also have professional standards to abide by and am appraised annually and have to be at work during certain mandated hours.

I am astonished at how many people can’t see the difference between a paid job and someone managing their personal life at home! One is work and one isn’t.

Zone2NorthLondon · 30/06/2024 15:34

TheaBrandt · 30/06/2024 15:27

If it’s not work what are working parents paying thousands of pounds a year to nurseries for then? The good of their health?

Do you really need this explained?Attending nursery maintains 2 wages, career progression,provides regulated & inspected care. Nursery is a for profit business that is CQC inspected and has to adhere to national standards Fees are to cover salaries,running cost, utilities,

housewife, sahm isn’t providing care to a nationally agreed standard or adhering to Early year syllabus. It’s a set of tasks undertaken at own pace,unregulated and to no particular standard. Not scrutinised and doesn’t maintain 2 wages and it’s not a job

Runnerinthenight · 30/06/2024 15:35

MichaelScottPaperCompany1 · 30/06/2024 15:31

Thank you! I’ve shared 2 posts now comparing SAHPs to nannies/childminders and nobody has replied.

I’m keen to understand if they have earned the same judgement from some of these posters. Are their jobs a breeze? Are they able to do whatever they want other than just looking after the children? If no, why is it different when it’s your own family you’re working for?

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If paid childcarers are doing their jobs well, no, they don't have time to go to the supermarket, or go shopping for their own child's prom dress etc. Their attention should be directed on the children they are caring for. SAHPs can spend their time however they choose.

Loudhousefun · 30/06/2024 15:39

Blueballoon90 · 30/06/2024 08:14

Within the next year or so all children over the age of 9 months old will be entitled to 30 hours a week free childcare so it’ll be interesting to see whether rationale for staying at home stays the same

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Free childcare, this is where I am going to jump in and say that I have had a lot of experience working, managing and sending my child to said ‘childcare’ and unfortunately very little care goes into it, it is just supervision and absolutely in no way a comparison to what a loving parent could provide. Appreciate that many do not have a choice but where there is please think carefully before outsourcing

MichaelScottPaperCompany1 · 30/06/2024 15:41

Runnerinthenight · 30/06/2024 15:35

If paid childcarers are doing their jobs well, no, they don't have time to go to the supermarket, or go shopping for their own child's prom dress etc. Their attention should be directed on the children they are caring for. SAHPs can spend their time however they choose.

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A SAHP’s job is a breeze and not real work because they can also run errands/do chores while looking after the children and a childminder’s job isn’t a breeze and is real work because they can’t run personal errands/do chores while looking after the children- is this what you’re saying?

Zone2NorthLondon · 30/06/2024 15:43

MichaelScottPaperCompany1 · 30/06/2024 15:31

Thank you! I’ve shared 2 posts now comparing SAHPs to nannies/childminders and nobody has replied.

I’m keen to understand if they have earned the same judgement from some of these posters. Are their jobs a breeze? Are they able to do whatever they want other than just looking after the children? If no, why is it different when it’s your own family you’re working for?

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Do you really need this explained?Having a nanny maintains 2 wage and career progression. The nanny has a JD and contract explicit in what’s expected. The nanny can be sacked if not adhering to safety or contractual obligations. The nanny being employed means both parents work. An outgoing cost to maintain total wages and skills etc

housewife, sahm isn’t providing care to a nationally agreed standard or adhering to Early year syllabus. It’s a set of tasks undertaken at own pace,unregulated and to no particular standard. Not scrutinised and doesn’t maintain 2 wages and it’s not a job. The housewife is a cost as essentially there’s only one wage were there could be two

Runnerinthenight · 30/06/2024 15:43

Cusheen · 30/06/2024 15:12

My kids have finally left home for university. We have a fabulous group of mums, a combination of working and stay at home mums. Some used nursery, some used childminders and some stayed at home. I am biased but all our kids are pretty delightful young adults. You cannot of course tell who went to nursery and who had a stay at home mum. But they all had invested and loving parents.

The big shock for me has been two couples already splitting up. One with a wealthy husband; she will get half of the assets but she is now terrified at losing a monthly income as her standard of living will drop as her job that she got in recent years does not pay much. It has been a huge eye-opener for me. Another mum has said she would never advise her kids to go part time as she did as she now resents her husband‘s career as she can now see where they each are on the career ladder. I would never have predicted this from either of them. A cautionary tale perhaps.

Loved kids seem to do ok whether their mum works or not. But the detriment in later years may be to the woman, not the child…

I whole-heartedly agree, very sensible post!

I would absolutely have resented not being equally able to make my way in the world to DH. I think he would have resented me being at home and leaving the entire financial burden on him. I would never, ever have made myself so vulnerable, and giving up work was never even a fleeting consideration for me.

I am so happy I did keep working FT as now I am going to have a full state pension (eventually!!) and a decent work pension. Trust me, it comes round sooner than you think!

KimberleyClark · 30/06/2024 15:44

Cusheen · 30/06/2024 14:52

How can any woman bear to think she is ‘providing’ those roles as a service to her husband 🤢

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And would they still be considered “a full time job” without the childcare? Or is it just the childcare that makes them that? I mean,if enabling your husband’s career is a job, then it is a job regardless of children.

ArseholeCatIsABlackAndWhiteCat · 30/06/2024 15:45

@MichaelScottPaperCompany1 what oversight is there? Can you be fired? Put on a performance plan? If you decide fuck it I'm staying on the sofa all day today and watching telly because I feel rough/I'm hungover and Jimmy can be on his tablet does anything happen? If you don't do the laundry that day, or decide to meet a friend instead , or do your hair and nails while they're at nursery. Or I'm getting takeaway and not cooking.Basically doing whatever the fuck you want ,when you want , how you want and you're the only one that sets your priorities.

What happens? Nothing. That's why it's not a job.

Runnerinthenight · 30/06/2024 15:45

MichaelScottPaperCompany1 · 30/06/2024 15:41

A SAHP’s job is a breeze and not real work because they can also run errands/do chores while looking after the children and a childminder’s job isn’t a breeze and is real work because they can’t run personal errands/do chores while looking after the children- is this what you’re saying?

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I didn't say either was a "breeze" I believe, and other posters have explained it much better than I did.

A SAHP is not 'working' in the same manner as someone who's being paid to mind children as a professional. The SAHP is free to sit on their arse all day drinking coffee if they choose to.

Cusheen · 30/06/2024 15:46

Runnerinthenight · 30/06/2024 15:30

I had babies 22 months apart and still managed to work FT!

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Ditto. 21 months here. I managed because my husband and I shared every single task and decision and we were a team. It was not always easy but it was the best decision.

We have adults kids now with whom we are incredibly close. And we have financial security and equality and our kids have had good role models. No regrets at all.

Zone2NorthLondon · 30/06/2024 15:47

ArseholeCatIsABlackAndWhiteCat · 30/06/2024 15:45

@MichaelScottPaperCompany1 what oversight is there? Can you be fired? Put on a performance plan? If you decide fuck it I'm staying on the sofa all day today and watching telly because I feel rough/I'm hungover and Jimmy can be on his tablet does anything happen? If you don't do the laundry that day, or decide to meet a friend instead , or do your hair and nails while they're at nursery. Or I'm getting takeaway and not cooking.Basically doing whatever the fuck you want ,when you want , how you want and you're the only one that sets your priorities.

What happens? Nothing. That's why it's not a job.

Exactly. Looking after your own kids isn’t a job. It’s unregulated. No JD not subjected to scrutiny. Don’t list tasks and extrapolate that they are jobs

Cusheen · 30/06/2024 15:50

ArseholeCatIsABlackAndWhiteCat · 30/06/2024 15:45

@MichaelScottPaperCompany1 what oversight is there? Can you be fired? Put on a performance plan? If you decide fuck it I'm staying on the sofa all day today and watching telly because I feel rough/I'm hungover and Jimmy can be on his tablet does anything happen? If you don't do the laundry that day, or decide to meet a friend instead , or do your hair and nails while they're at nursery. Or I'm getting takeaway and not cooking.Basically doing whatever the fuck you want ,when you want , how you want and you're the only one that sets your priorities.

What happens? Nothing. That's why it's not a job.

Exactly. I am baffled that this needs saying. Is being a sahm really easy? No, with very young kids it can be relentless at times. (Though a sahm with school age kids usually has an easy time). But however hard it is, it’s not work! Not even close!

Runnerinthenight · 30/06/2024 15:50

Cusheen · 30/06/2024 15:46

Ditto. 21 months here. I managed because my husband and I shared every single task and decision and we were a team. It was not always easy but it was the best decision.

We have adults kids now with whom we are incredibly close. And we have financial security and equality and our kids have had good role models. No regrets at all.

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Same, except we were daft enough to go on to have a 3rd lol! All adults, all very close and loving, all doing well in their chosen fields. No regrets at all either!

Cusheen · 30/06/2024 15:51

Runnerinthenight · 30/06/2024 15:50

Same, except we were daft enough to go on to have a 3rd lol! All adults, all very close and loving, all doing well in their chosen fields. No regrets at all either!

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Being outnumbered is for pros. We could only manage two 😂