To continue to challenge the school on this? Religious observance

[sleepfortheweek]

Our DC go to a non denominational primary school in a fairly rural part of Scotland. At the end of each term (Christmas, Easter and summer) there is an end of term service in a Church of Scotland church with the other primary schools.

We are a non religious household and while we welcome RME in an educational sense, we are not comfortable with our DC attending church services. A couple of years ago, DD1 told me that JOY meant you must love Jesus Over Yourself and after that we decided to withdraw the DC from the end of term services.

I emailed the school and asked what other provision was in place for non Christian children and I was told none - if we didn't want them to go to the church then we had to pick them up early (the school day finishes after the church service).

When I challenged this, I was told that 'Religious Observance' was part of the curriculum of excellence and I was sent a link which went into the legislation.

The definition of RO is :

Religious Observance is defined as follows: "Community acts which aim to promote the spiritual development of all members of the school's community and express and celebrate the shared values of the school community".

However, when I read through it, it's very clear that should a child be withdrawn, suitable alternative arrangements must be made. I don't think the school has actually read it!

I was then told that they offer alternative activities for the other RO throughout the school year......I am totally unaware of any other such activity and so I asked for clarification at which point they passed me over to the education manager. How can I withdraw them if I don't know when it happens??

The educational manager has said that alternative provisions should be made and the school will hopefully keep me better informed in the new academic year.

I highly doubt that will happened and I'm pretty sure at the next service (Christmas) we will be in exactly the same position.

All the schools here (two main primary schools and a few village schools) are exactly the same. It's a big tradition that goes back decades where all the schools go to the church and I don't think any of them want to change that.

Should I continue to fight this? I'm not a confrontational personal and I've otherwise had a good relationship with the school but this is really annoying me. I had to take unpaid leave today to collect the kids early from the school. I just can't see how they can justify it!

The legislation can be read here :

www.gov.scot/publications/curriculum-for-excellence-religious-observance/

This is a good point. The more OP explains, the more militant this school sounds. I note that OP mentioned not wishing to disrespect the religion by challenging it's ' truth ' but this is exactly what we need to do with our children. Fear of disrespect is one of my other big issues with organised religion. People continue to be frightened into challenge out of fear of being seen as ' disrespectful'.

OP I imagine your daughter is enjoying elements of the religious side of things because it gives her some belonging with her classmates. This is really important. You can counter it all at home. I believe you are significantly more bothered than she is.

There are lots of books on evolution theory for kids. I myself was quite angered by the religious agenda in primary school from a very early age. We started debates and discussion on evolution very early at home.

My son enjoys telling his teacher that elements of religion are difficult to believe. Luckily she is a lovely lady and I can separate that from the nonsense they put upon the children. He won't be signing up to any religion anytime soon but has enjoyed and benefited from being part of something with his classmates. They all think it's silly now they are older but just nod along. My son is happy to say it out loud.

I think there is a mis-understanding that so called non-dom schools aren't religious (or even are agnostic/atheist) this is not strictly true. State education, as a whole, is underpinned by Christianity. 'Religious schools' are simply that they state their denomination or indeed act outside of the Christian religion in favour of another religion. In many schools, religious observance to some extent has increased over the last decade or so with the increased weight from OFSTED being placed on so called 'cultural capital' and the wider impact that it has on education standards (or arguably, is perceived to had).

You absolutely have the right to withdraw your child from any religious activity. That is a legal right. You also have the right to demand that your children stay in school and that they are educated during that time. However, I would urge you to think of the impact that this level of segregation will have on your children. 'Silent reading' is an 'educational activity' (the extent to which it is a good one, can be argued, but it is nonetheless an activity). There is a real difference between saying to a child 'do you want to go to church?' and them saying no, and the reality of being pulled out of class, and made to stay in school, sit in the corner and read whilst their friends all go on a jolly- even if that jolly is 'boring'. It isn't just the afternoon that it effects its all the discussion, between their peers, before, leading up to, and after an event. As a music specialist I can't count the number of students who I've had in tears over the years, when they realise that they have been learning/practicing a performance with their peers and they realise that for whatever reason they can't do the performance.

One or two posters have suggested counteracting the school's Christian message by 'teaching evolution at home'. Surely they know that believing in evolution isn't against the majority of Christian churches? Or are they assuming (wrongly) that being a Christian automatically means accepting the Creation stories?
OP, does the school your child attend teach 7- day Creation as fact?

But she doesn’t want her child to attend a church so she needs to leave work early. I don’t know any state schools (in my area) that don’t have church visits.

No she doesn't.

The law is clear that the school needs to make alternative arrangements

Does she not have a choice? Or are you insisting she believes what you tell her to?

Just thought I would say if you choose to home educate guess the only subject you must teach by educational law. yes you guessed it religion not necessarily just Christianity but a broad spectrum of religion.alongside Christianity we were fine with this but jings it was strange to be told English maths no don't worry but religion oh yes

And I'm sure the school will keep the children until finishing time. If it’s finishing early anyway you’d leave work early or find after school provision.
I’m an atheist and think religion is bollocks but have never been bothered about my kids learning about religion. Perhaps I’m just not that arsed about a trip to church 🤷‍♀️

Non denominational doesn't mean non religious. All state schools in Scotland have a Christian ethos. I'm atheist, former Catholic. My 3 now adult children are atheist and were not affected by going to church with their class. Although I guess it's maybe more full on in rural communities.

The whole point of the OP is that her school isn't agreeing to keep her child in until finishing time but is insisting she picks them up early. Which costs her money because she has to take unpaid leave.

I read it as they initially said they wouldn’t but then said they would, but she doesn’t believe it will happen. Perhaps I’ve misread.

I read it as the education manager is at the council has said the school should do this this year but the school itself has not confirmed that.

Except that isn’t what the legislation says. The school have to provide alternative provision so the child doesn’t miss out on education.

Ah, thanks for that, happy to be corrected. In that case, yes, OP does need to challenge it if the school say no.

To clarify on my earlier posts, the school will not provide an alternative choice and I very much doubt they will in the future.

I've said my piece, and they know how I feel. This isn't the hill I'm going to die on, we've had 7 years now at this school and this is the first time ever I've emailed them about anything. I do feel strongly about it, but I'm aware if I make it this a big thing it might have a negative impact on your DC.

Thank you to everyone who has replied, it's been really interesting hearing everyone's opinions

Hopefully in time this will die out in school and children are simply informed about different religions as part of their general education.