vet holding cats ashes hostage

[Saitama]

My poor cat had been at the vet on and off for months, but in the end unfortunately had to be PTS. This was on a weekend and so the cost of it was extortionate, but it would have been cruel if we'd waited until monday. We asked for him to be cremated and to have his ashes back and his paw prints etc.

We've spent several thousand £ at this vet in the last months for my cat, trying to diagnose and treat him, all paid up to date until the PTS. Now I owed £700, I paid 350 of that and set up a payment plan for the rest at X amount per month. But the vets are refusing to give me my cats ashes back until it's paid in full.

All my savings have gone into my cat and I have nothing left, so his poor ashes are just sat at the vet alone and waiting for me and I can't bring him home. I've been with the vets for years with my other animals, have always been a good client, paid on time, never missed an appointment, no reason for them to think I'd just take his ashes and not pay since my other pets are registered there.

It's going to be approx 4-5 months until I can pay the rest of the bill to get my cat back, it feels so cruel of the vet to be holding him hostage like this when taking all the above into account, and how many appointments I had had there with this cat alone. I'd even sent them a card and chocolates after some of the appointments before to thank them for their work etc.

AIBU to think it's super messed up and cruel that they won't just give me his ashes now?

Our vet always says 'we'll sort payment out later' which is always much appreciated. It doesn't make me entitled. It just makes it seem pretty mercenary, to me, when it is done differently.

I think it really depends on where the business is. In my 20s I used to donate so, so much of my time and money for free, in order not to be seen as mercenary.

In my 30s, I have a growing family to house and feed. Any time, energy and money I give away for free to strangers, I could be spending on my DC instead.

I do volunteer at points in the year but that's something separate I sign up to do outside of my workplace.

Inhumane AND uncharitable then?

Dear dear...

Well, my funeral directors expressed the view, understandably, that they had experienced many family members ordering “bells and whistles” funerals, and then saying they couldn’t pay.

A neighbour, with different funeral directors, was told the funeral wouldn’t go ahead, for her mother, unless the bill was paid, in full, by x date.

So, now it’s money upfront.

God, you're a bloody entitled disgusting freeloader. You're right, I damn well don't do charity in my job.

The irony is that if your boss or your DH's boss randomly and unexpectedly docked big bits of your salary off every single month, you'd not stand for it. It's ALWAYS the entitled ones that kick up the most fuss.

Like I said, I donated SO MUCH of my 20s to entitled customers like you. That will genuinely be one of my deathbed regrets, no exaggeration, especially since a lot of time and money I could have spent on growing and nurturing my small lovely family was lost.

Customers who GENUINELY appreciate what you do almost always find a way to pay. Those like you who plead poverty and never pay up, you often see them spending on other non-essential things anyway!

Frankly, you also don't deserve to own pets if you think you're a charity case. You need to make sure you've financially planned for the worst case scenario before you buy a pet. Pet owning is a luxury, not a charity.

I understand that you might feel it necessary to do things differently. I'm just saying I appreciate the way out vet does it and that certainly doesn't mean I think he should give his time for free. He says 'we'll sort payment out later' not 'this one's on me!'

@popcornbit no I don't feel entitled at all, I don't feel that particular surgery showed any empathy and it was very much pay your bill then we will let you say goodbye to your cat. I saw many negative comments about that practice afterwards so I wasn't alone in that regard.

My new practice on the other hand were wonderful when I lost my dog suddenly last year, I was absolutely distraught and they insisted the bill didn't need to be settled there and then even though I offered. DH went in a couple days later and paid for everything, the expert couldn't have been more different.

Yes it has turned to shit. So many clients now abuse the trust of vets that many can no longer afford to allow payment at some unspecified later date. Such a shame for all the honest ones but there it is.

I feel like some people on this thread would only be happy if the vets never asked for any payment at all.

For some reason Vets are a profession where too many people think you do it just for the love of animals.
It takes many years of training and often £££££ in Student Loan debts to become a vet but some people are still surprised that they expect to get paid.
Nobody thinks nurses and Doctors should work for free (Hopefully) and vets have huge overheads that people working in The NHS dont
Vets Practices are Businesses with overheads to pay and while most of the ones I know do offer the odd freebie, especially to wildlife they should be treated like other businesses when it comes to payment.
My vets are great, they have always acted with compassion and for the good of my animals but they are professionals and I will treat them and pay them as such. My cat was sadly PTS last Thursday and I will be there on Monday to pay them in full (and then claim on Insurance thankfully)

But that's exactly what they did for OP.

Except she came back without enough money to pay her bill, and now has to pay it over five months.

If you ran a business, would you think that was acceptable?

I totally understand. Like I said it depends on where the business is at. Bigger businesses with more capital and perhaps more spread out overheads are able to write these losses off. Smaller businesses can't take these risks.

Of course even a firm policy can be stated in a nice and empathetic way, and if I'm understanding you correctly, the business was not particularly kind in the manner and tone in which they asked for payment.

(Additionally, of course there are big businesses which are really mercenary, and small businesses which may take on debt just to help its customers... But ultimately it's a subjective decision how much potential loss each business feels it's able to write off)

Yes I appreciate that and I'm sure you're an honest person. But for every 1 paying customer, there are many non-paying or late paying customers. It also takes a lot of effort and time to chase up late payers by the way, so it costs £ in a business sense.

You can't usually tell who they are in advance either! The ones most smiley & gracious & middle class are often the ones who turn nasty when eventually asked nicely to pay. They start accusing you of being a money grubber etc. Perhaps it's because they are middle class that they feel they are owed something. I have no idea!

I do have customers I really trust and will bend over backwards for them. But mostly now I don't want to repeat the same mistake I made for many years in the name of "empathy", at the expense of my own family and DC whom I'm missing out on time with and whom I am earning money for. And for people who are actually usually quite ungrateful once you actually start asking for the £!

All of that said, I do think it makes business sense to write off certain losses to gain customer loyalty. If I were a big business which could afford it, I would be open to a pay later policy, not out of goodwill but to not offend high ticket customers whose profit will cover the loss from non paying customers.

I’m with you. Vets are trained professionals, doing a job. If someone wants their goods/services, then they need to pay for it.

If you choose to own pets, then you need to set aside money/pay insurance to cover every eventuality.

Promises to pay doesn’t pay anyone’s bills/wages.🙄

If this is a serious post and not a piss take (or meant for a different poster) you need to learn how to read and understand the English language.

hth

With regards to you ramblings on contracts, I’m not sure who you’re replying to so no idea what you’re on about there.

As for the CMA - they are investigating 17 practices. Out of over 4000 in the UK. I perfectly agree that whenever there is a perceived lack of competition it should be challenged. I welcome the investigation. We don’t yet know what the result will be. If there is a problem it won’t be across the board. I’ve been working locum in many different practices and can tell you that in my areas at least the pricing is very competitive. In any case, lack of competition or transparency is not the same as price fixing.

It is inflammatory to describe the entire veterinary industry as ‘rotten to the core’. How can you be surprised that will get our backs up?

Price lists can be difficult in veterinary medicine because there are so many variables. Unexpected things can happen. Estimates should be provided in advance of treatment, and owners contacted if this looks likely to be exceeded. Nothing to stop potential clients calling around for prices.

As difficult as it can be, vets should always work to your budget and keep you updated as to the running cost. Don’t imagine that the vet can perform miracles on peanuts though. Advanced surgery and long inpatient stays are extremely expensive. The majority of vets are not trying to rip you off. We all became vets because we are animal lovers, but we do need to make a living. Many practices run on very tight margins and bad debts can be devastating.

The only factors that influence a vet’s clinical decisions are the current evidence based medicine, the welfare of the pet, and the owner’s budget.

Vets are human, and mistakes happen. You may even come across the odd bad egg sadly. But most of us are doing our best.

I’m still not sure what all this has to do with the OP’s problem but there we go.

Can you explain what was misunderstood? Because it seemed a reasonable response to me. Maybe you need to explain yourself better if it’s not coming across the way you want it to?

You’re raving. I don’t know why I’m engaging with you because you are clearly either a troll or on something. You obviously have no understand of the veterinary industry. With clients like you I doubt there will be enough vets left in this country to care for sick animals in 3 years time.

Okay.

Later on I’ll summarise the posts I’ve made on this thread and see if Popcorn can explain how his/her vile and rude deductions fit with my words.

I’m concerned that you consider that diatribe a reasonable response though.

It’s up to you to ask for the cost. They’re a business at the end of the day.

Did you have insurance?

You’d called her inhumane and uncharitable hadn’t you?!!

Yeah, I’m sure popcorn said something like she couldn’t afford to do as much free work for clients as she used to now she had a family, and you called her inhumane and uncharitable. You deserved everything you got.

I would, but the last English teacher I demanded free lessons from was just plain selfish and uncharitable. Will you teach me for free instead?

It's awful that you have people being nasty about paying you. And I understand that you have to make a business decision. But you seem really lovely, so I'm sure what ever way you do it, you do it with empathy which I think is the main thing and something the decent customers will appreciate.

In view of the later childish comments I was tempted not to bother, but I said I would summarise, so @ProfessionalPirate and @popcornbit here goes:

swimlyn · Yesterday 16:21
…and vets are meant to be compassionate and animal lovers so it contradicts that when…
Gosh, yes, I remember when they USED TO BE compassionate.
In recent years things have been very different for us. Costs have gone through the roof and they don’t seem to see the human side of the business at all.
Huge houses attached to the business and £100k cars in the drive. Says it all really. Money, money, money…

swimlyn · Today 15:39
Absolutely NOT the case for me when my brother died.
Every business involved was very kind and considerate about waiting for their settlement as nobody involved could pay upfront.

swimlyn · Today 15:55
No.
Over the years we have paid on the way out, often in tears, with them saying we can come back and pay later.
The world has turned to shit.

swimlyn · Today 16:12
Inhumane AND uncharitable then?
Dear dear...

swimlyn · Today 18:03
If this is a serious post and not a piss take (or meant for a different poster) you need to learn how to read and understand the English language.
hth

swimlyn · Today 19:41 (to ProfessionalPirate)
Okay.
Later on I’ll summarise the posts I’ve made on this thread and see if Popcorn can explain how his/her 16:19hrs vile and rude deductions fit with my words.
I’m concerned that you consider that diatribe a reasonable response though.

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ProfessionalPirate · Today 19:42
You’d called her inhumane and uncharitable hadn’t you?!!
No. You’re ignoring the question mark. It was a query on his/her immediately previous claims.

Before it was edited, the previous statement was about doing work for free, and ‘not wanting to appear mercenary’. If you do free things, it is free. If you do paid things, it’s paid. Mercenary doesn’t come into it unless you said it’d be free and latterly decided to charge.

In all of this, I really can’t see the need to explain myself better, and imho the diatribe was way OTT.

My apologies to the OP @Saitama for this silly derailment, not of my making.

Thanks for the summary. It hasn’t helped your case, you certainly don’t sound any more reasonable on second reading. I’m not sure why you seem to think that vets don’t deserve to be paid for their services, and I’ve really no idea why you accused popcorn of being inhumane and uncharitable when she comes across to me as being the very opposite of these things.

I can’t follow what you mean about the question mark and mercenary comments. Do you perhaps not understand the meaning of mercenary? It absolutely came across to anyone reading it that you were accusing popcorn of these things and I’m not sure why you think the addition of a question mark changes that. If this was not your intention, then you should own it, and consider better clarity in your written communication. Ironic that you suggest popcorn needs a better understanding of English (despite appearing to be very well-written) while you own posts are impossible to decipher.

By the way, if you really know any vets that drive £100k cars……. They have a separate income stream to their veterinary work.