vet holding cats ashes hostage

[Saitama]

My poor cat had been at the vet on and off for months, but in the end unfortunately had to be PTS. This was on a weekend and so the cost of it was extortionate, but it would have been cruel if we'd waited until monday. We asked for him to be cremated and to have his ashes back and his paw prints etc.

We've spent several thousand £ at this vet in the last months for my cat, trying to diagnose and treat him, all paid up to date until the PTS. Now I owed £700, I paid 350 of that and set up a payment plan for the rest at X amount per month. But the vets are refusing to give me my cats ashes back until it's paid in full.

All my savings have gone into my cat and I have nothing left, so his poor ashes are just sat at the vet alone and waiting for me and I can't bring him home. I've been with the vets for years with my other animals, have always been a good client, paid on time, never missed an appointment, no reason for them to think I'd just take his ashes and not pay since my other pets are registered there.

It's going to be approx 4-5 months until I can pay the rest of the bill to get my cat back, it feels so cruel of the vet to be holding him hostage like this when taking all the above into account, and how many appointments I had had there with this cat alone. I'd even sent them a card and chocolates after some of the appointments before to thank them for their work etc.

AIBU to think it's super messed up and cruel that they won't just give me his ashes now?

You are you. But they will have dozens and dozens of people just like you who have been with them years, spent thousands, always paid on time, etc, who they release ashes to who then forget our still don't get round to paying the balance. So they have to have rules. In situations like this they have to stick to the rules because they'll have let things go before, and been let down. It's not a personal judgement of you, but because of others who were in your position and then let them down.

Exactly, it was my choice to have two cats, it's a cost I have to pay whether I like it or not. It's why I have insurance (at a stupid amount each month now they're getting older), it's why I pay for a health club membership at the vets which covers x number of visits/flea treatment/annual vaccinations and discount on certain treatments. I also understand that my insurance won't pay for cremation and I don't expect my vet to pay for it either. When I had to go to the emergency vet I literally juggled money about so I could pay the excess that day. I know someone who sold his car to pay the vet for treatment. It's what you do.

My vet doesn't expect payment on the day of death but they do expect payment. I've been with them 18 years (my family have been with them for 30 years) I would never dream of asking for it on a payment plan even though I'm a long standing customer.

It's my responsibility to pay it as its my choice to have them. You get a pet you pay the vet bills. If you can't don't get a pet.

Perhaps he makes more money, perhaps not. But unless you live in some kind of imaginary utopia, I doubt that every last one of his clients is as reliable as you are. I’ve worked for ‘old school’ vets in the past who wouldn’t have dreamt of hassling clients for quick payment. The accounts always suffered for it.

I live in a pretty ‘well to do’ area and still encountered the clients above. I’ve just remembered one particularly bad example where the client had insurance and received a pay-out to her own bank account yet still never paid her bill! Double whammy.

Personally, I consider ‘flexibility in payment options’ to be pretty low down on my list of ideal vet qualities. But it sounds like you have a good relationship with your vet which is great.

But you’ve been replying to me, and the discussion has been about the set-up in the OP of paying invoices in increments over 5 months.

If you intent to pay the vet promptly on receipt of invoice anyway, what difference would it make you if you asked to pay on the day? What harm is there in a vet trying to protect themselves from a minority of clients that will take the piss in this way? If your vet ever changes their invoicing policy, will you be leaving the practice?

The thing is OP, you may be an honest person who is hard up at the moment, but there’s lots of people that aren’t. I’m not saying you personally, but society as a whole seems to have forgotten that pets are a total luxury, not a need. You are just one person- imagine if there’s 10 people not able to pay that £350. That’s £3500. Imagine if there’s 20? That’s 7K that business is down. A lot of money.
The issue is, you may be a loyal client, and a good payer. But isn’t everyone… until they are not? A majority of debts of ours are from OOHs and animals that have been euthanised- for some reason the mentality becomes “I don’t have that animal anymore, so therefore I don’t need to pay the bill”.

Also, the £300 OOHs fee is totally reasonable. Emergency euthanasia's are often very sad circumstances, very hard emotionally and also tricky from a pet being unwell point of view. You have someone working over night/ weekend work who needs to be remunerated properly, plus the skills set required in order to help your pet pass peacefully in stressful circumstances. Also the bills of keeping the clinic/ hospital/ vehicles (depending on what pet we’re talking about here!) running 24/7. ‘15 minutes work’ is really dehumanising what goes into these types of emergencies.

I am very sorry about the loss of your beloved cat, but I think you are missing the point that other’s dishonesty is pushing these decisions, not the vets themselves.

I don't think the policy is wrong, but you absolutely should have been made aware at the time. It is unfair to take the choice of having the cremation done elsewhere away from you. Especially when it would have saved you money and emotional distress. I would make a complaint about that, and expect them to make it clear to everyone who has to make the choice in future.

OP there are 2 issues here.
The withholding ashes until bill paid - fair enough, they're within their rights to do so.
However the cost of cremation should have been made clear upfront.
My vets are transparent about everything, they always state the costs and gain agreement before doing anything even medication that costs a tenner. Every single member of staff, from the vets themselves to vet nurses and receptionist. Especially for upset/distressed owners who may not be in the right frame of mind. It's disgusting that you got slapped with a massive bill!

I can't believe that few others have picked up on this.

I'd be moving your other pets to a more ethical practice.

It wasn't taken away from her, she asked for cremation, paw prints etc.

But she wasn't given a price and she wasn't told the ashes would not be released until the full amount was paid. I'm not saying either the cost or the policy itself is unfair, but if you don't give someone the full information you deny them the right to make an informed choice. People who are grieving are highly unlikely to think to ask for this information for either an animal or a person, so it should be freely offered.

Discussing costs at the time of PTS is a tricky area. The client would have been offered three options most likely - private/individual cremation, communal cremation, or taking her pet home to make her own arrangements for burial or cremation. If asked, of course prices should be discussed. For the vet to raise the issue of costs unprompted can be seen as tactless by some. It's not easy to get the right balance.

It is tricky, absolutely, but that doesn'tmean it shouldn't be done. I've put down a dog and buried a partner. I in no way consider it tactless to be made aware of the costs before committing myself to them. I would consider it manipulative to do otherwise.

The issue is that if the vet had started talking about costs, I imagine there'd still be a thread about how insensitive they were being at such an awful time - they can't win.

Ultimately it's up to you as the owner to ask about costs and to make sure you can afford what you're asking for.

Wrong. There's a right way to do this - they don't have to start listing everything. Just mention a ballpark - the owner can either inquire more, or say money is no object.
Also, if they're going to cause offence no matter what they do.
It's better to cause it for being 'insensitive' by raising the issue of cost. It does no lasting damage.
Compared to a financially vulnerable customer being hit with a massive bill, like the OP.

Going through costs properly can be very difficult in an emergency situation. Remember this occurred OOH so we can presume the poor cat was in considerable pain/distress. No owner is going to be happy leaving an animal in that state for a minute longer than necessary while the vet chats finances.

It’s not ideal, but I very much doubt that the vet was being ‘unethical’.

In May this year the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) confirmed its decision to launch a market investigation into the veterinary sector. This follows the CMA completing a review last year which, amongst other things, resulted in over 56,000 responses from pet owners and people working in the industry who were concerned at the costs and working practices in that 'industry'. I am confident that on its completion of the CMA investigation there will be huge changes, including the dismantling of several of the conglomerates. Specifically the CMA are looking into the acquisition of 17 different companies/practices by Medivet Group Ltd. The vet business as a whole is rotten to the core. Small practices, often run by one, or a few individuals have been gradually bought out by corporates over recent years and pet owners rinsed of their money. When checking registrations several years ago at Companies House I, like an earlier contributor was shocked, at the unholy alliance between various veterinary entities. The large entity will be made up of related companies which supply others within the group with business and often run by a small number of individuals all within the same holding company. Fortunately the CMA is empowered to break up businesses, impose heavy fines for various offences and hopefully they will do that. The vet industry has become an amoral money making machine for certain companies and individuals all at the expense of a pet loving society. Hopefully all will be named, shamed, and heavily censured with massive fines. It is a disgrace. So, for all of those who consider Saitama was unreasonable in wanting her cat's ashes at home before having paid the invoice, shame on you.

WTF has all that got to do with this thread? You’ve no idea whether the OP’s vet is independent or not, and nothing to suggest the OP has been ‘rinsed of her money’.

Mumsnet vet threads are very depressing. No wonder vets are leaving the profession in their droves. Either that or committing suicide.

Asking a devastated, sobbing owner about money while their animal is suffering or has just been put to sleep is never going to be an easy thing to do.

Besides, even if the vet did explain, the likelihood of the customer actually taking it in and understanding is going to be pretty minimal anyway.

As an owner, it is your responsibility to make sure you have enough money available to pay for anything your animals require, not the vets'.

What makes a Vet Practice so superior it’s allowed to operate above the law?

Answer: it isn’t.

Keeping a deceased pet until the bill is paid is likely to be deemed an unfair contract term and if the OP was me, I’d definitely take them to court to argue that point. Unfortunately, they’d probably capitulate before it got to court. 😂

What makes you think it's unfair?

You can't walk out of a shop without paying for your goods, what makes a vet practise any different?

The dead cat isn’t the vets ‘goods’. She’s paid for a service and wasn’t told they’d be withholding her pet until the payment plan was completed. Tbh there’s nothing stopping her from swerving the bill even now and just not collecting the ashes, going by the previous replies that happens a lot. The process is the same for debt recovery whether she’s got the cats ashes or not

Yes, I do understand that and it makes sense.

I've always had insurance and also I have a savings account for my cat that I pay into regularly so the money is there should I need it. However, I did really appreciate it when for some reason I can't remember I didn't have the money to hand and they were fine about it, as well as sorting payment for putting my 2 to sleep later.

Fair enough. But posters have also been talking about not paying upfront/immediately not necessarily paying over 5 months. So maybe we've been talking a bit at cross purposes.

Well, like others if I was asked to pay on the day my cat was put to sleep it would feel mercenary. Rightly or wrongly that is how I would feel.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with a vet doing that I just personally would find it unfriendly and I'd not like it. If I was to feel uncomfortable and like my vet was less caring then yes, I'd probably look for another practice.