vet holding cats ashes hostage

[Saitama]

My poor cat had been at the vet on and off for months, but in the end unfortunately had to be PTS. This was on a weekend and so the cost of it was extortionate, but it would have been cruel if we'd waited until monday. We asked for him to be cremated and to have his ashes back and his paw prints etc.

We've spent several thousand £ at this vet in the last months for my cat, trying to diagnose and treat him, all paid up to date until the PTS. Now I owed £700, I paid 350 of that and set up a payment plan for the rest at X amount per month. But the vets are refusing to give me my cats ashes back until it's paid in full.

All my savings have gone into my cat and I have nothing left, so his poor ashes are just sat at the vet alone and waiting for me and I can't bring him home. I've been with the vets for years with my other animals, have always been a good client, paid on time, never missed an appointment, no reason for them to think I'd just take his ashes and not pay since my other pets are registered there.

It's going to be approx 4-5 months until I can pay the rest of the bill to get my cat back, it feels so cruel of the vet to be holding him hostage like this when taking all the above into account, and how many appointments I had had there with this cat alone. I'd even sent them a card and chocolates after some of the appointments before to thank them for their work etc.

AIBU to think it's super messed up and cruel that they won't just give me his ashes now?

Exactly and vets have one of the highest suicide rates by profession

Oh, I see.

Vets are compassionate, they certainly don’t go in it for the money, most employed vets are on surprisingly low wages for their level of expertise especially when you compare it to say the wage of a human Dr.

I have seen vets tying themselves in knots trying to help folk that turn up with no way to pay for treatment and expecting free care because ‘vets should be compassionate’ yes they have a duty of care to prevent suffering if you can’t afford treatment that care technically only stretches to euthanasia. I’ve watched vets scrabble around trying to find open bottles of drugs due to be discarded or open for another patient that likely isn’t going to be used in full that they can take from to try and help out people that have no way to pay, I’ve seen them offer free in-patient day care because owners say have no money and can’t manage to do that themselves at home and they are faced with otherwise putting a perfectly saveable animal to sleep, I’ve seen vets / nurses / students and even the receptionists take on often young animals that were going to be euthanised because the owners couldn’t afford treatment and paid for their care because putting a young healthy animal down when there is a simple fix is heartbreaking and unbearable. I’ve seen them putting drugs that they can’t legally sell because they are one or two days out of date but probably fine and that technically should be destroyed to one side so they can give them to registered charities to help reduce their vets bills that often result from surrenders from owners that cannot afford care. I have seen them get upset over losing patients, especially if they have been long-standing or passed too young, I have yet to meet a vet that is not compassionate and that will not do everything in there power to help where they can. Vets are often just employees, their hands are often tied by their practice or regulatory rules. The worst part of working in a vets is having to deal with clueless, ignorant, rude, aggressive and entitled owners that think the world owes them a favour and being slagged off when they don’t get the answer they want. Being in veterinary practice is very waring and as someone else mentioned has the highest suicide rate of any profession. There is currently or was not that long ago a national shortage of vets and vet nurses and is it any wonder when you consider the high levels of training, the high student debt and the not so great wages coupled with all the stick they get as a profession.

I think this is awful, there are other ways to recover debts. I’d leave several grotty reviews.

There are other ways but I’m guessing the OP would rather have this than be chased by debt collectors or taken to small claims court? I could be wrong I guess.

There are. But they are time consuming and expensive and not guaranteed to get a result. Vets aren't banks or loan companies - chasing bad debts is a difficult business.

Agree. If the OP took out a formal credit agreement with eg a credit card company and paid her debt to the vets with it she would get the ashes now. Telling the practice that she needs to split payments over five months (likely interest free and with no security for the vets) is a different thing altogether.

I think that's fair of the vets TBH, you claim to be honest and hopefully you are in RL. However they all have too much experience of "honest" people doing runners when given the benefit of the doubt, so they have to do things this way to ensure payment in full. Just the way it is.

Why should the vet have to worry about recovering debt in the first place though?

If OP wants her cats' ashes back (which I totally sympathise with) then she can get a loan or credit card from her bank and pay her debt off that way.

What she can't do is expect the vets to act as a middle man and risk being out of pocket for her decisions.

No, I had Siamese’ cats, years back, and I don’t think my vet used to view them as cuddly animals lol. We both used to end up sweating with the teeth, claws and chaos…😳😉

The “charity” vets are the PDSA etc. The other veterinary surgeries are a business, and if you want their goods/services, you have to pay for them.

It’s simple.🤷‍♀️

From personal experience, it's vvvv stressful to have to chase down non-paying customers who received great service. It's not greed, in the same way you asking your boss for your overdue salary isn't greed. I need that money for employees' salaries or my business lease or my family's bills.

It also takes away from the actual time I am meant to be spending on serving paying customers and (yes) making money.

Some of them have good intentions but simply can't pay at the moment, so yes I would have to give them some incentive not to go MIA forever. Others are simply bad eggs.

They could hire debt collectors or go to small claims, but that's an added business expense and anyway those are wayyy more unpleasant than simply withholding the product!

They could get their employees to chase OP up, but at the expense of employee work time and wellbeing... Employees are not emotionally and practically equipped to handle tracking down and wheedling evasive, defensive, possibly abusive debtors (not saying OP is like that at all, but many customers will react when put on the spot).

Either way lots of time and expense for the company, and lots of stress especially in a busy practice where day to day a lot of their actual hands-on business is urgent or demanding. Imagine if there are multiple OPs each month – and there will be if they relax their policy. It all adds up.

Of course there are grotty businesses that only care about the money, but most businesses are just trying to make sure they and their employees don't work for free (leaves a bitter taste in your mouth)... and worst case scenario don't end up out of pocket (stress, panic, possible disaster).

I do try to be compassionate when I can financially afford the hit. But it's like lending a big sum of money – the rule is to assume you'll never get it back. Unfortunately that has often been true, even for those really polite, grateful customers.

Because in the one (the shop) one has offer, acceptance and consideration, i.e. the essential elements in the formation of a contract. In a vets the situation is invariably different. The 'contract' is often verbal which, though still legally binding, often causes issues through misunderstanding or even a bad actor. It is 'one persons word against another'. A contract can also be being formed by 'performance' e.g. the owner taking the cat to the vet who performs some service on the animal.

Vets too can have 'standard' forms of contract just as, for instance, there is in construction, shipping etc. which have developed over many decades.

In the vets practices of which I and many of my friends have experience, the first time a cost is known to one of the contracting parties, i.e. the customer, is when the invoice is presented. This even applies where one goes for a simple thing such as medicine, drugs, prescriptions etc where the cost and profit required is known to the practice. This breaches the basic 'rules' in contract law. Nor have I ever seen a price list in the reception area of any vets practice.
I strongly suspect many of these situations will change when the Competition and Markets Authority have completed their current investigation. I believe it also likely some of the larger groups related to the treatment of pet animals will be broken up. This would ensure fairer competition and that vets are not incentivised to limit choice when providing treatments or recommendations especially where they form part of larger vet groups.

Good for you
'Oh, someone didn't do what I wanted them to do, when I wanted them to do it, despite not being able to pay', so I will complain about that someone
This is why this country is shit

In many situations, bits of the hostage are chopped off until the ransom money is paid, or political demands met.
The vet could do a reverse and as the debt is paid, send back small piles of ash on pro-rata basis

ACynicalDad
I think this is awful, there are other ways to recover debts. I’d leave several grotty reviews.

The vets carried out the services the OP asked for. Euthanasia and expensive, individualised cremation.

OP then couldn't settle her bill in full for those services she selected and has been offered a payment plan.

It would be cheeky fuckery to leave any grotty reviews, never mind several.

Why are some on this site so offensive? Are their lives that sad? The fact my post lacked paragraphs was a) inexperience, I'm not a keyboard warrior and b) a brief experience on a local site where, on pressing the 'enter' bar an incomplete post would be registered. However, compared to the poor syntax, split infinitives and hung participles used in your posts make my temporary failure pretty small beer. Dislike raising such criticism but it was invited.

As for my vet bashing thread/rant, it was no such thing. The content was topical because it related to vets costs, patient/vet interaction whilst underlining the lack of legislative control/competition in the veterinary industry which has led to intervention by the CMA. Incidentally, did you note the paragraph?

To use a non offensive initialization, TBH rather than engage further with yourself I'd prefer to put pins in my eyes. An individual who employs foul language and makes inaccurate statements using poor syntax, the latter I could excuse, is hardly one with whom I would choose to 'debate'; I use the latter in its loosest sense.

I did NOT, "suggest the OP has been rinsed of her money"'. What I did write was, "The vet business ..... often run by one, or a few individuals have been gradually bought out by corporates over recent years and pet owners rinsed of their money". It is clear that applied to the industry generally NOT the OP's veterinary practice in particular. It is also clear the CMA have the same overall view, hence the Inquiry.

On final paragraph. I forecast within 3 years the veterinary industry will be totally transformed. It will be very transparent, properly legislated and more competitive all in the interest of the pet owner and vet. There will even be a price list in the reception area of every practice. And, if the profession has any sense it will have introduced a written 'business to consumer' contract. Rant over, goodbye.

So very sorry you lost your lovely pet, and unexpectedly too.

We use an independent vet practice. Their prices for euthanasia are clearly displayed on their notice board. They also state that they will coordinate the cremation if clients wish, but all fees are payable to the crematorium business. A list of their fees is also displayed - there is only one locally.

The crem calls the client before pick up, discusses arrangements , fees etc and gets agreement before proceeding.

We pay the crem, not the vet, for that side of things, and you bet they hold onto the ashes until paid in full.

They are very kind and respectful, but it is their livelihood, so they are pretty clear on that basis .

I think your vets were kind to offer a payment plan. Mine make it very clear they don’t. That said, they ensure I get a written estimate of all costs before proceeding. Even the large corporate out of hours provider did that.

So my comment would be that this is perhaps an area your vet could improve on,But I don’t think they are being unreasonable.

What the fuck are you going on about? Seriously dude.

The OP can get her pets ashes when she's paid the bill. It's the same with human disposal. You pay the bill. It's nothing more complicated than that.

This is an important issue.

Lots of people wouldn't be allowed to take the TV home.

There's no restrictions on who can own pets, and then in turn, rack up debts in line with associated costs.

So vets are much more vulnerable to bad debts because they have no vetting system (sic) to weed out good payers and bad payers.

In theory if they were really harsh, they could ask for a credit check before taking on a customer. That would really be uncompassionate.

As it stands, they don't do this.

Totally agree with this. I know a vet and the amount of people who don’t pay their fees is very high. Previous posters are right they are compassionate - they are allowing this poster to pay in instalments with no additional fees being applied for this.
Vets are a business and have staffing and overheads costs to meet - where would we be if our employers said I can’t pay you this month but will do for the next 4 months!
i empathise that the OP has lost their pet and I have been there and understand the heartache that brings and send my sympathies. But let’s not pile into vets please.

Absolutely NOT the case for me when my brother died.

Every business involved was very kind and considerate about waiting for their settlement as nobody involved could pay upfront.

@Tara336 Fuck me!

How much lower can they sink?

People would've called them callous if they asked for payment after the really emotional process of putting the cat to sleep.

Basically asking for any sort of payment is awful, as pet owners feel entitled?

No.

Over the years we have paid on the way out, often in tears, with them saying we can come back and pay later.

The world has turned to shit.