Anyone else wobbling about voting Labour?

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

I desperately want to GTTO but the last few years have taught me that ‘any change’ isn’t always good and things can get worse, even if you think they can’t.

I’ve watched all the debates now and Starmer is so… wet. I don’t like him. The first thing he did when women’s rights were mentioned his first thought was men who ‘identify as women’ and how ‘marginalised’ they are. When asked about immigration he squirmed and squirmed before muttering about his role as DPP (who cares? We want to know what you plan to do NOW). When asked about his support for Corbyn he said ‘but I didn’t think we would actually win..’

There’s something about him which is making me very uncomfortable and I just have a bad feeling now about what would happen if he was leader.

Anyone else? If you’re not voting Tory or Labour, who are you voting for and why? I assumed I would vote Labour this time but my gut is suddenly screaming at me not to!

What about when it looks like all the buses are headed for various cliffs? Then what?

You've fallen for a tall tale@Absc

This about farms was made up by the Tories.

No one wants farms broken up. Food is important.

I get your concerns, I really do.

Starmer is trying to play to the floating voter who might prefer Reform. Immigration has become a big issue in this election (it's not an issue for me personally at all, though human rights is) and he has to strike the right balance.

Ref the women thing - I totally understand, it's a massive concern for me too. But in the end, I can't vote on one issue alone. And I console myself with the fact that the parties who do know what a woman is only do so in order to be regressive and do things like ban abortion, reduce maternity rights (my Tory MP was very clear at his public meeting that he opposes abortion and he spoke about women as if they were second class citizens, except when reminding us that he's all for us having our own spaces. He conveniently forgot that Teresa May had tried to introduce self ID, I reminded him and he told me I was wrong - that's how much they think of women in the wild!).

I actually see Starmer as a man with integrity, but that holds him back in the debates because, unlike many, he won't outright lie. And I think he gets thrown when others do (Sunak's £2,000 thing, for example).

I've voted. I voted Labour. No others came close to offering anything I could get behind. Plus Labour have the best chance to GTTO where I am - had that been LibDem I might have gone for it. Had it been Reform I definitely would not have done.

I am a bit. I'm not keen on that Angela Rayner and her leftie pals and don't admire her at all, But like a lot of folk I want to see the back of the Tories so needs must. Nobody else is going to beat them.

Tbf Aus is having similar debates over immigration numbers. Even with space

And it’ll feature in US elections. And EU

I can see everyone else going hardline, which could be destabilising for us

Britain, as seen from America currently. Tories must go.

”There is mold in the walls and shit in the rivers, posh butter in the supermarkets has anti-theft tags stuck to it, the trains run on schedule about half the time, the average pub-poured pint of lager—the blood of the nation—is nearing the criminal price of 5 pounds ($6.34), and on May 22 a new general election was announced to the people of Great Britain by a prime minister who is richer than the king.”

https://newrepublic.com/article/182987/british-election-reckoning-brexit-postponed

There was Sure Start, and lower crime rates......those things are linked!

Odd writing

660,000.
And that includes those arriving from Ukraine and Hong Kong. And estimates vary between 3-5 million as to how many Hong Kong residents have been given the right to come to the UK under agreements made by the Conservative government.

I can't understand why he's leading Labour - what a mistake! They have such a powerful shadow cabinet, I can't believe that somehow he's frothed to the top. Jess Phillips, Lisa Nandi, Wes Streeting, Angela Rayner & Andy Burnham are all much better. However, I don't think that they will create enough change and they're too centre for me now.

Therefore, I'm now looking at Lib Dems or Green. Their manifestos represent what matters to me the most. Steve Beasant for the Lib Dems in Grimsby is brilliant. He regularly clears high fly-tipping areas and has worked hard for years. I'm still upset about their coalition with the Tories though so, I'm still undecided.

I'll assume you're at least 70 years old and very out of touch with the shitstorm of incompetence that is now the UK. Maybe you have private health insurance, because you can't possibly be unaware of the other shitstorm that is the NHS.

I used to vote Tory, and yes, from 1979. I ceased to be a Tory voter after the Brexit referendum in 2016.

The Tory party is no longer the Tory party, not after they (Johnson) got rid of the good guys such as Dominic Grieve. So, if you vote Tory, you are voting for a party which is deep in right wing bollocks and has no centre or morality. They serve only themselves.

Maybe because so many of their candidates and activists keep airing horrific racist views? Three of them in Clacton talking about murdering Muslims and asylum seekers, replacing police with paramilitaries and turning mosques into Wetherspoons. How many have had to be disowned by Reform and yet it keeps happening?

I say be careful with this strategy. I know one person who said she was going to vote for Brexit, despite not being a Brexit supporter, "because it will never actually happen but will be a wakeup call for the Tories". Basically a protest vote. Tbh I find it hard to forgive her for being so irresponsible given what happened next.

Only vote for a person you'd really be happy to win imo.

I'm not a Labour voter btw.

Andy Burnham isn't an MP!

https://www.fwi.co.uk/business/tories-and-labour-clash-on-farm-inheritance-tax-claims

Labour haven't said they will put inheritance tax on farmland.
The Tories spread that rumour and Labour replied that it was "desperate nonsense”.

I agree. He isn’t assertive, shows no conviction let alone passion, and doesn’t act like a leader at all. He is vague and sits on the fence. He has a perpetually puzzled, annoyed or worried look.
I want a PM who is a strong, principled leader who speaks with conviction, not a wibbly waffler who waits to see which way the wind is blowing then half heartedly goes with the flow.

I think Kier Starmer is a decent bloke. I don’t support all his ideas but it would be strange if I did. I think he will try and do the best for the people and quite frankly after Boris, Liz Truss and Sunak a bit of quiet decency is welcome.

And JP isn't in the shadow cabinet..

Lots of talk in the tax community is that the agricultural inheritance tax loophole is much too generous and far too open to abuse. I think if they’ve ruled out other tax rises then this is the sort of thing they’ll look at.

@MaryMaryVeryContrary I desperately want to GTTO but the last few years have taught me that ‘any change’ isn’t always good and things can get worse, even if you think they can’t.

Then vote Tory, if you want more of the same and a PM who is richer than the king.

@Absc , Farmers Weekly has always been Right-leaning.

I’m voting labour. Our local MP is Labour and they are superb - incredibly helpful and visible to constituents - she’d get my vote regardless of who was in charge of the party. I agree with a PP who said Labour are deliberately keeping KS bland but I think he’s a solid choice for PM.

Restrictions will be scrapped, barriers will be removed, deportations will be blocked, and so on.

Ed Conway points out that "legal migration utterly, utterly dwarfs the small boats side of things... it's very different to the overall narrative that we tend to hear about.”

But that's what you think, not what they've said. And in the last government the Conservative chancellors repeatedly raised taxes contrary to their manifesto commitments.

The Conservatives have current form for breaking their own tax commitments.

I've voted by post, for an Independent, as the Labour candidate is a shoo-in and I agreed with the Independent's stance on most things. He has no chance of getting anywhere but I am hoping my vote will be one of sufficient votes for him to prevent him losing his deposit, though I'm afraid that's highly unlikely.