Niece chucked her life away - anyone experienced this pain?

[Corianm]

So my half sister has the most wonderful daughter who just turned 19. She is one of the loveliest girls to have ever walked the planet - she’s so kind, sweet, caring and hilarious in the most charming/endearing way. She has a lot of very young half siblings on her dad’s side and gosh the way she interacts with them is just incredible. She is adored by them.

I was always excited to see where her life would take her. My niece always expressed a desire to experience the world e.g. she hoped to live in Italy for a year and learn the language. The world was truly to be her oyster. I’m know I’m very effusive just out of a desire to convey her loveliness. Trust me my family have not been blowing smoke up her behind for the past 19 years. She very much is has her feet on the ground. Never placed on a pedestal or anything like that.

Anyway, niece recently told me she is expecting. Of course I congratulated her and expressed enthusiasm when she told me. But truth be told I am gutted. The father is a nice enough guy but is quite happy living quite an ignorant life. We once had a conversation which involved the bf arguing how boring art galleries are. I’m just heartbroken for my niece, she’s actually interested in the world and wanted to experience it. But she has completely changed her life plans (no uni now) for this boy.

I’ll always be there for her but my heart aches. It’s obviously her life to live. I’m very aware of not being inappropriate re boundaries.

Has anyone else experienced a similar situation?

I get it, OP. Of course you're going to be supportive of your niece. I think you're getting a hard time on here. And OF COURSE you're allowed to feel concerned and disappointed for her! I have an 18 year old daughter and would be gutted if she fell pregnant. It's truthfully not something that the majority of mothers would want for their young daughters.
Hope it all goes well for her.

The WHO describes teen pregnancies as a problem.

Closer to home, the the Nuffield Trust says:
‘Research has shown that teenage pregnancy is associated with poorer outcomes for both young parents and their children. Teenage mothers are less likely to finish their education, are more likely to bring up their child alone and in poverty and have a higher risk of mental health problems than older mothers. Infant mortality rates are 60% higher for babies born to teenage mothers. As children, they have an increased risk of living in poverty and are more likely to have accidents and behavioural problems.’

I despair at the disingenuous posts here describing all the wonderful things that happened to them after a teen pregnancy. It’s not reflective of wider society at all.

Couldn't agree more.

Children having children is never a good idea. It's not good for the child and neither is it for the mother.

Pretending that this is a positive outcome and an amazing thing for this girl is wilful ignorance.

Becoming a mother in the patriarchal, misogynistic world we live in means that a woman's life becomes stymied in a way that a man's doesn't. Yes being a mother is wonderful and fulfilling in many ways, but it is also incredibly time consuming as societal convention dictates that women should be the primary caregiver, and our social structures and institutions are set up to reinforce this convention. Women carry the majority of the physical and emotional load of caring for children and they are the ones giving up their careers and social lives to do childcare. This is just fact.

A nineteen year old with a baby can still go to uni and pursue a career. But it will be infinitely more difficult and considerably less enjoyable. Having a child to support means you have fewer choices and need to make many more compromises than someone who doesn't. As a result, the statistics show that the vast majority of teenage mothers do not pursue higher education and end up living in poverty. Fact. For all the stories on here of women who have bucked the trend, there are hundreds more who haven't. The statistics don't lie.

At the average age of motherhood, a woman has usually enjoyed a child free life for at least a decade after leaving education. They have had the chance to experiment, make mistakes, learn about themselves and what they want from life, and build a stable foundation on which they can rebuild their independent life after taking time out to have a child.

A nineteen year old has just left school. They haven't had the chance to do any of those things.

It's not the medieval times any more. The misogyny on this thread, suggesting that a woman should be ashamed for wanting more for her niece than a life of hard bloody work bringing up a child that she will probably end up being solely responsible for, is breathtaking. Women's lives should be so much bigger than just fulfilling a biological function. Being a mother is, I'm sure, a wonderful thing in many respects (I've never wanted that for myself), but it's also something many women regret due to the restrictions it places on their lives. Pretending it's the greatest achievement or fulfilment of a woman's life is nothing short of Victorian propaganda, and it's so depressing that women are still trotting out this shit in 2024, and celebrating a 19 year old having a baby. There is nothing to celebrate in a girl in the prime of her life having to give up her dreams to have a child she could have just as easily ten or even twenty years later, once she's actually been able to live a life for herself.

Quite. If having a baby at 19 is so great and doesn’t hold you back, why do most people wait until much older? Oh yes, because they want to live a bit first, get themselves established as adults and be in a position to afford a baby.

Yes agreed.

I had my kids in my early thirties. The biggest thing I gave them, as well as love, financial security etc was my life experience. I was able to advise them on so much by virtue of being a proper adult. I would have done my best at 19 but goodness I would have not been able to parent with the maturity I had in my thirties.

I actually agree you op. Love is blind I was your niece I had huge plans and had secured a placement abroad for 6 months then fell pregnant. Life was tough for a while but I’m happy now and life is good although I do still long to see/ do more but it’s not possible. I’m trying to find happiness in what I have but it’s tough. Hope it all works out for her. Sending hung x

I really wouldn't want to be that old when I have my first baby. I had plenty of friends who had their first at 30 or a bit older. I've seen three of them die in their 40s leaving minor children behind. I'm lucky enough not to have that happen to me, but at least if it had, my children were grown. Better for them and something I'm grateful for for myself. I don't think this is a reason to decide to have them early though.

I deliberately started my family early. I was capable and mature and did a good job. I took to motherhood easily and loved every minute. Due to medical issues in my family, many of the women haven't been able to have children past their late 20s. Motherhood was important enough to me to not risk missing out on it altogether. I just happened to be lucky enough to get married very young, so had someone to make that choice with. I have encouraged my own daughters to consider this issue for themselves.

I am also glad for you. Though I did not grow up on an estate I grew up in what would now be called poverty, in London. My parents made strenuous efforts to make sure I went to an all-girls' school - less likelihood of pregnancy - and supported me to go to university. Also my two brothers. I think my DF would have preferred me to take a secretarial course (he offered to pay for it - a lot of money) but I didn't want to be a secretary (also, useless at shorthand!) but he did not insist, thinking we should find our own ways out.

Some people grow up faster than others I guess.

It’s all a bit pointless people saying it’s not ideal to be a teenage mum. We already know that but this young woman has chosen to keep her baby so the horse has bolted.

The posters talking about their own experiences as young mothers going onto achieve success is relevant here, it shows it can be done.

What’s happened to her niece is a tale as old as time but she needs support, not hand wringing over her missed opportunities.

I’m very glad my life worked out that way. I wouldn’t encourage my dds to go out of their way to have kids in their teens, but I also wouldn’t see it as a disaster if they did as I know that things can work out very well indeed, but it would depend on their individual circumstances at the time. Tbh, people are individuals aren’t they, so we all have different capacities for different things at different times. Dd2 would be fine as a teenage parent, but I think dd1 would struggle.

My dds have loved having young parents though and both say they would want their first before turning 30, they don’t want to be older parents and would prioritise having kids younger over waiting for the perfect time and then running the risk of being older parents. That comes from seeing the differences between us and their friends parents.

Another one who completely agrees with you op. She’s just made her life a whole lot smaller and harder. I’d be gutted if my DD got pregnant now, especially with a partner who is unable to financially support them and seems to have a small town mentality. There is also a very good chance (statistically) that she is going to end up as a single mother.

As lovely as it is to hear about all the young mums who defied the odds, got their degrees, became well off, went travelling etc, the reality of it is she is much more likely to fall into the group who have a hard life. Especially if her own parents aren’t there to help and support. My mum raised me alone and she had a bloody hard time of it, she remained poor her whole life. She was a talented artist but had to work shit jobs around school hours to pay the bills. Everything was harder for her because she had me at a young age with a man who was the wrong choice.

@dayslikethese1 but the statistics don’t lie. Let’s face it must posters on this thread and on MN are going to be the ones where it worked out. Less likely to have a teenage single mum on here living in abject poverty, or a mum having watched her teenage DD living a very hard life as a teenage mum.

And statistically if the niece has already had a hard life to start with growing up on a rough estate then much more likely to be in the life of drudgery camp than successful business women with 2 degrees behind her camp.

@MyGardenIsAmess

Most women are not anywhere near ready to have a baby at 19.

Suggesting a woman is 'too old' to have children at 30 because they might die in their forties is, frankly, absurd.

We can't predict the future. None of us know for how long we'll be around. But ensuring you give your children the best start in life is the best gift you can give them. A child having a child is, in the vast majority of cases, not going to give their child the best start in life because they lack the maturity and resources to do so.

It's great that it worked out for you, but you clearly had no dreams beyond motherhood (nothing wrong with that, by the way). The OP's niece does. That is the crux of the issue here. If this girl was quite content to stay in her home town trotting out kids for the next twenty years and wanted nothing more than that, then the OP wouldn't be upset for her. But she wanted to go to uni, live abroad, have a career using languages. Realistically, with a baby, that's not going to happen now. And that is - and I agree with the OP on this - a waste.

I might also add, I've been a secondary school teacher for 15 years. I've taught thousands of teenagers in my time. I've yet to meet one who had the maturity to become a parent the year after they left school.

Personally, as well, I've seen the difference in immature v. mature parenting. My parents were barely out of their teens when they had my sister. They had me and my brother over ten years later. The difference in mine and my brother's upbringing compared to my sister's, is enormous. My sister was parented by children who had no idea what they were doing. My brother and I were parented by adults who had matured and could set appropriate boundaries and provide for us financially in a way they struggled to do with my sister. If my parents had their time again, they would not have had my sister when they did. They openly acknowledge they had no idea what they were doing and they let my sister down. My sister has a lot of unresolved issues from her rather chaotic childhood that I don't, and I am glad I got the benefit of my parents having grown up between having her and me. Youth isn't everything.

This.

all the poster preacher about how terrible it is to be a teenage parent are too late. She’s pregnant and she’s keeping it. That’s her right as an adult to make that decision for herself. There is no point banging on about ruined lives. Her life isn’t ruined, life is always what you make it. The important thing now for for her to know that she can still go on to achieve and have a good and enjoyable life.

it may not be for most of mumsnet, but you and your kids growing up together is actually quite a magical thing. It’s a different experience to having kids when you’re much older and further removed. there are positives and negatives to having kids at any age, but being 19 is really not the end of the world. She’s an adult at the end of the day. I’d understand all the negativity if she was 14 and still at school, but she’s not. She’s an adult that had made a choice about her life, she doesn’t appear to be devastated by the fact she’s pregnant.

I totally get you OP and understand what you're saying but this is MN so you're wrong 🙄 I'd be disappointed for my daughter's if they suddenly had to slam the brakes on their lives so soon when they finally have the opportunity to put all their studies and growing up into forging their future. She hasn't thrown her life away but she is going to grow into a parent when she's not really past being parented instead of spreading her wings across her twenties.

My mate was the same - finally able to do stuff in her forties while we had all done so much into our thirties. And my niece (collapsed doing her firefighter fitness tests, her dream from childhood, and discovered she was pregnant. Ten years later she's doing care work at nights and everything revolves around the children. Too unfit, too tired and unable to ever get that dream back.)

But it is what it is.

Most women might not be ready to have a baby at 19, but some women are, and are very capable too.

If you read my post you will note I said the risk of early death isn't a reason to have them early. However, I do look at my friends who came to parenthood later, left minor children behind, and think how it could have been different if they'd had them earlier. They have missed out on so much. Perhaps they were one of the people who wouldn't have done well having them earlier, but sometimes that is decided by when you meet the right person to have them with too.

I don't know why you assume I had no ambitions outside motherhood. I met my DH at university (which I went to earlier than the usual age because I was capable or doing so) and have graduated three times while producing a few children along the way. All babies were planned, including the one born at 19, due to the medical possibility I couldn't wait till 30. It was a measured decision to do something that might not be able to wait, for me anyway. I was confident with babies and had plenty of experience with them. Even the nurses in the hospital commented on how confident I was. Some of my dreams might have taken longer to achieve, but I did achieve them.

My children are grown and very positive about their life and childhood. I sure had a lot of time and energy for them. I still remember with joy climbing all over the play equipment with them at the park while the older parents sat by the side feeling they were past it.

No, not everyone should have babies at 19 (I was married and we were supporting ourselves). It doesn't mean no-one should have babies at 19.

Some friends of the family DD was a teenage mum and then had further children 10 years down the line to the same dad. The older child has some issues with her parents as she can see/impacted by the difference in parenting between them and the younger children @EnidSpyton

I would be gutted if a family member who was on track for university got pregnant at 19. Even more so if the father was not looking to make much of his life. Yanbu from my perspective, not at all.

Totally. I also think the idea that she’ll just be able to carry on where she left off once the child is grown is naive and deluded. I know some young mothers do but they’ve usually had extremely supportive families and partners and come from less disadvantaged backgrounds than this young woman does. None of the parents of adult children I know are reliving their carefree childfree days. They are supporting their children through various life issues and in many cases still supporting them financially as they continue to live at home.

Spot on Enid. And these stories of high flying ex teenage mothers are the exceptions that prove the rule and I would bet come from middle class backgrounds where aspirations supported and expected which is not usually the case and I don’t think is the case here either except by op.

Dd1 a year younger waiting for a level results off travelling with friends for a year then university with year abroad. I would be fucking gutted it she got pregnant and stayed at home.

Actually I came from a working class background with my father making minimum wage, or not much above it. My father actively discouraged me going to university. My mother pushed me to go, which I did early, so by 19 I already had two full time years of university completed and was into my third.

Agree Kimberley parental support has escalated very different to when I was 18. We still full on parenting mode her with mid to late teens and their needs emotional / educational/ practical and will be for several years post 18 so the idea that a child reaches 18 and mum pats herself on the back and lives entirely for herself is nonsense.

@EnidSpyton

Children having children is never a good idea. It's not good for the child and neither is it for the mother.

Pretending that this is a positive outcome and an amazing thing for this girl is wilful ignorance.

Completely agree. I have never understood the fetishisation of being a young mother and rhe idea that this is a reasonable trade off against the huge disadvantages it gives you.

Yes there are marginal advantages in terms of stamina in being say 25 as opposed to 39. You are likely to find it easier to conceive and marginally less likely to have birth defects. But the idea that this is more important than the advantage of life experiences, wisdom and financial independence when you take into account the whole scope of the child’s life seems warped to me.

Having children is obviously wonderful but it’s terrible for women financially and having children when you have not yet built up a foundation in your life, the ability to provide for yourself and a store of experience from which to gather when making judgements about things is foolish.

Yes of course this girl may well be OK and eventually go to university etc. But she is choosing to actively skew the playing field against herself at a time when she really needs the give herself every opportunity she can.

@MyGardenIsAmess but one of your parents supported you.

The OP is the one supporting the niece in this situation. Her parents don’t think exams are important . I assume your mum didn’t believe that you should be the dinner on the table when you get home type of woman either