Paula Vennells is history but now at the Post Office Inquiry is Fujitsu distinguished engineer Gareth Jenkins - thread 4

[nauticant]

A continuation of this thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5094266-paula-vennells-was-done-the-other-week-the-post-office-inquiry-is-now-questioning-associates-and-others-thread-3

When the hearings are going on, live-streaming can be found here:

https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/featured

All of the previous hearings can be found here:

https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

Absolutely @nauticant .

I was going to say the same, but didn't know how to word it. Your wording is spot on.

Yes.

It is special hair. For some reason the word "symbiosis" comes to mind.

Show them your proof of payment?

SAP cannot interface with Local Authorities Housing benefit systems so payments are missed, lost or misattributed

Noticed this on Twitter earlier - Gareth Jenkins resigned his membership of the professional body for IT professionals after they wrote to warn him that he might face investigative action pending his appearance at the Inquiry.

Also, Computer Weekly has been awarded a special category in the Orwell Prize, announced yesterday, for firstly breaking the story and then its continued reporting of the Horizon scandal.

I think the thing I find hardest to believe in Jenkins testimony is his claim that he believed the boilerplate text from Fujitsu that he used in his witness statements to court ("There is no reason to believe that the information in this statement is inaccurate because of the improper use of the system. To the best of my knowledge and belief at all material times the system was operating properly, or if not, any respect in which it was not operating properly, or was out of operation was not such as to affect the information held within it.") referred to the computer system on which the witness statement was prepared, not to Horizon. If he really believed that he is monumentally stupid.

Yes. I’ve noticed Jason Beer not being across what answers mean, compared to someone in the tech industry.

Do you all mind : Can we go back to Paula Vennells. I know this is very harsh but she's actually very mousey looking both in physical appearance, especially facially, and also her demeanour and mannerisms. Pre this court case I had imagined her more demonstrative and definite. Her fake tears made me feel physically sick.
I can't take to her at all. She makes me wince. She doesn't do herself any favours, to make herself appealing. Her mannerisms. Nothing.

All her emails are so bland, they say nothing, ever.

Also when the phone call earlier transcribed, he says I've got 8 files of the worst cases, she says send them to me and then spells out her email address, her surname. How can he not already have her email address? Who was he reporting to before - it's just very odd.

Her email then says all these are very disturbing. Yes. And? So what are you actually going to Do?

Has she ever written an email, in her whole life, in her CEO time, of anything concrete, of anything substantial, of anything committal : e.g. the sales are this section are £36.7 million but the budget is £38.3 so let's do ABC to push towards....
anything? Ever?

She too has complete convenient amnesia. She can't remember anything anyone ever told her. Nor can she remember what her job as CEO of the Post Office actually entailed.

What did she ever actually do? Swan around aimlessly? Does she even know what her job was? Who was monitoring her and holding her accountable? How did the Board let this happen?

This case is just so awful.

" I can't recall".
"I wasn't privy to that".

Well why not? Why weren't you told? Why didn't you make sure you were told? That's your job.

I know it’s completely infuriating!

Private mentioned potential colour bias of the prosecuted SPM I think.

@JenniferBooth I'm so sorry, that sounds awful. You're managing to write calmly about it, but I know the impact these things have.

There was, of course, the notorious racial identification codes:

https://www.postofficescandal.uk/post/what-were-they-thinking/

@nauticant

W.T.F

This whole thing comprises about 95% W.T.F Quirkyme.

The schedule for next week has changed:

Evidence Week 12
Tuesday 2 July, Not sitting
Wednesday 3 July, Tim Parker - former Chair of Post Office Ltd
Thursday 4 July, Not sitting
Friday 5 July, Not sitting

It might be that they've decided that the hair is so extraordinary they can only manage a single day of it.

You're absolutely right @Oblomov24

I think we have all worked for someone like Paula Vennells, I know I have.

The worst managers/directors/ceo I've worked for are not the ones which make good decisions or bad decisions- it's the ones which make no decisions at all.

And that's Paual Vennells. She made no decisions at all. She made everyone else make the decisions, but took full credit for them, at the time.
Now, however, she is trying to take advantage of this and claim "Oh no, not me guv. I know nuffin. Its everyine else fault"

Luckily, no one is buying this, we all see through it.
...1 because like you say, it was her job. She was paid over £5million to do this job, she doesn't get to wash her hands and walk off into the sunset.
...2 making no decisions at all doesn't absolve her of responsibility. She would like that to be the case, but thankfully ignorance is not an excuse.

Oh god yes, the bloody racial identification codes.

I would also argue there is classism as well - an institutionalised prejudice and discrimination against the SPMR. Viewing them as working class and lesser than.
Hopefully I can explain it like this:
▪︎ Post Office Head Office educated, wealthy, mix with high/upper echelons of society = therefore must be honest, right and trusted in everything
Vs
▪︎ SPMRs working class, run small businesses, mix with pensioners and people on benefits = therefore must be crooks, thieves and liars.

What clinched it for me was an email from Paula Vennells.
A SPMR, (can't remember his name) sent Paula an email explaining he was getting unexplained shortages and losses.
Paula forwarded the email to her SLT saying something like " I know this SPMR and he is a Magistrate and trustworthy, so something must be going wrong at his post office"
So, because she viewed him as "one of her own" all of a sudden he wasn't in the same class as the other SPMR and because he was.a Magistrate, he was now accepted into her class and therefore must be believed.

I hope thus makes sense.

Agreed Minou.

Plus not many CEO's are responsible for one of the worst miscarriages of justice. Horizon. Scandal. 700 convictions. And only about 37 full settlements. £600,000 ? Give over! The bankruptcy. The suicides. 230 prison. And the pregnant lady in prison.

We've all seen Paula Vennell's true colours. We can see right through her bullshit. I find her offensive, please don't treat us like we are stupid.

But what is Jason Beer KC etc going to be able to achieve? What is the result going to be?

She's incapable of true self reflection. She's not really sorry. We can't get a conviction. So it won't be satisfying, will it?

Possible Bishop of London? Lord save us. May God have mercy on her soul. Hope she rots in hell.

I can only assume that PV and others have been heavily coached by their own legal teams to only admit to what can be proven in evidence. I’ve said before that I worked in POL HQ throughout this whole period and I certainly don’t recognise PV as someone who shirked making decisions. In fact she was quite forthright in her views and always pushed her senior team to strive to deliver or exceed against their plans (although I can only really comment on what I observed in the specific areas I worked in - not Horizon related). This is in stark contrast to her limited recollections at the inquiry and distancing herself from the actual decisions made. (PV and others) These were not people paid to not do or decide anything. POL had its weaknesses of course and decisions could be slow and lost in process, but decisions were made and actions were taken, whether about Horizon or other matters. So my biggest issue in all of this is that the inquiry is still only getting to see what people are willing to reveal which makes them look workshy and stupid which is not the truth that I recognise. It’s frustrating but perhaps inevitable while the individuals face the prospect of prosecution. Ultimately I believe it also means that the inquiry will miss out on a full discussion of what actually happened.

Thank you, @GoldenMalicious . It's really interesting to get your inside take.

@nauticant "There was, of course, the notorious racial identification codes"
oh dear god (or whatever) it just gets even worse...

And I completely agree with @Oblomov24 in regards to PV and her 'demeanour' which is simply nauseating. This type of demeanour is rife and usually disguises rampant control-freakery, incompetence and/or whatever; all fine as long as it's delivered in a calm manner and quiet voice.

GJ has utilized a version of this demeanour - oh poor techie me - but he certainly enjoyed wielding power over the lives of those he saw before him court and testified against. No sympathy from me Mr (not prof/doc) Jenkins.

I'm away next week but thanks again to the OP and other PPs for keeping us all in the loop.

They said they dont know what im talking about

Have you asked your bank to trace the payment from their end? See if they can give you bank reference numbers that your bank/their bank have used so that hopefully you can prove that the money was definitely placed in one of their accounts.

We are on HB because DH is 74 We have paid extra in the past. and it just disappears into an abyss. Spoke to another tenant who has bank statements as proof of payment and they still wont have it
SAP says no