Term time holidays

[roundtable]

Apologies if there is already a thread on this.

During August this year, the fining system of parents for taking children out of school for term time holidays is going to be nationalised. The local authorities (not the school or the teachers they don't do the fining) will have the ability to fine £80 per parent per child for the 'first offence'. Second term time holidays £160 per parent per child. Third could result in prosecution and if found guilty failure to safeguard children's education can be added to show up on any dbs applied for.

I'm surprised there hasn't been more outrage to be honest. Most parents don't seem to know about it yet. I think it's a nonsense. Most parents who chose a family holiday in term time are not the persistent absentees. I'm a teacher and I can't speak for all of them but having a term time holiday isn't really something that gets me in a tizzy. There are far more pressing concerns than that. Although, dont ask me to send home the work they've missed!

I can't take term time holidays so I've no real skin in this game but if I could - of course I would! I believe it should be at the head teacher's discretion as it used to be. A head knows whether or not a particular family has an issue with attendance and could authorise it accordingly.

Everything is so expensive for a lot of families at the moment and life can be hard. Taking away the opportunity for a family ro spend some quality time together in an affordable way just seem really sad. Lots of mine and my children's best memories are holiday related. Or am I being unreasonable?

(Unless you play the system and take a term time holidays every other year as it's within a 3 year period.)

I'm fully expecting some replies of - 'well I never went on a family holiday in term time as a child and I'm fine' and words like 'parents are so entitled' to be used but I think it's very such a shame that people's quality of life seems to be getting worse, not better. Surely it should be the other way around?

I only took my dc out of school once for a holiday, and I regret now not taking them for more. Costs are extortionate during school holiday! They're now 19 and 24 and don't want to come away (probably 80% of the reason why is because they have to pay for themselves 😂).

I wish I had loads of memories to look back on, as they don't stay little long. I think there's only 5 holidays we actually took them on. They've been away with school and friends but it's not the same. If I had my time again I'd take out and pay the fine (still cheaper than a school holidays holiday!).

YANBU. Holidays are a huge issue for us because of autistic children and a change to the routine. Add in that the places are busy because it’s the school holidays, and it stops being worth even attempting.

It's been a long time coming to be fair!

I live in a seaside town. There are plenty of apparently school age children enjoying the beach t the moment, so I assume parents are either taking them out for a short break, or willing to pay the fine.

Even when it increases, many will feel that the fine is outweighed by the saving on the holiday.

YANBU but I don't understand how working parents have enough leave to take term time holidays plus cover childcare in the school holidays too. We are going to Cornwall for a week in August, if we went now I'd use a week's annual leave but then I'd still need childcare for that week in August. So I'd be looking at more holiday clubs which costs money too.

I have a real issue with this system tbh. Both DH & I worked in an industry where taking time off during any school holiday was impossible - whether you're PAYE or self-employed. It cannot be done. And where I live that industry accounts for most of the employment cos that's largely all there is.

So the schools here didn't fine parents for term-time holidays. They didn't exactly clear it & you'd still get a letter from The System, but the Head Teacher would wish you a lovely holiday & no fines.

Without that understanding we'd not have had a family holiday for some 15yrs. Should add we'd never take them out once at GCSEs.

The cost of term time vs school holidays is a whole other thing!

I sort of get it I think; there needs to be something in place or I wonder if teachers would ever have a full class. Like you say, maybe head teachers discretion would be better but it allows for a lot of grey areas doesn’t it.

My massive bug bear is more towards the travel companies etc, makes me so angry. I know they blame increased demand but how Center Parcs can go from £450 to £2k for a 4 night stay is just gross to me!!!! If half term hols were that bit more affordable everyone could win!!!

I’m sure its all not quite as simple as this but sometimes I feel we’re missing an obvious middle ground…

I think it's crazy to take this hard stance on parents taking children out for a holiday before looking at the parents of children with persistent absence, which I think most people would agree is more disruptive. I don't actually think those parents should be fined either btw.

I had heard about this (We've actually got a term time holiday booked for next year, as my children's schools don't have the same holidays) but I hadn't realised it would roll over three years, I'd assumed the harsher penalty would be for 3 holidays in one year, not potentially one holiday year! It's just going to encourage parents to lie and say the children are ill surely?

Where does the fine money go??

But it's still only once you've missed 10 sessions in a rolling 10 school-week period. So you can still go on term time holiday twice a year without being fined if you want, just make sure it's not for more than a week and make sure they're properly spaced out.

I genuinely don't think it's that unreasonable to expect children not to miss more than a week at a time for holiday. I thought people usually just added on a couple of days either side of a school holiday rather than took the whole holiday in term time?

They do get 5 days’ grace, so you can take them out for a whole week of school and avoid a fine.

I disagree that it should be at headteachers discretion. Ime that resulted in higher achieving children being authorised and those that have had illness or who struggle more at school being unauthorised. Blatant discrimination, albeit for fair reason.

A blanket rule that sends the message that healthy children should be in school is fine by me.

People will just end up booking 5 nights over a weekend instead.

If they are paying thousands to go long hail for longer then they aren’t going to care about a few hundred quid on top.

The fine has only gone up by £20 a child.

Schools can also still approve holiday.
My daughters school just approved a 10 day holiday for her as it was for a wedding so it came under special circumstances.

I agree with this. I think blanket monetary fining is wildly unethical in almost all cases and so was trying to think how it could be fairer - but you're right, a child who is struggling in school doesn't need to be 'punished' by taking away their chances of a holiday so that's not a solution either.

Surely people are just going to say their child/ren are poorly and come back in full health with a stinking tan and hairbraids.

Whatever the sanction, perhaps 12 days is fairer - allows for a week for all but stops people taking the mick.

Yeah I just used to say they were sick.

Also, the absences include lateness after the register closes - which is sort of understandable, I get it - but a friend of mine has 3 children at 2 different schools and one child has additional needs which means that not unfrequently she physically cannot leave the house on time and someone is going to be late. Not every day, not by very many minutes, not always the same child but I'd reckon over the year it'll all tot up. I do understand it's disruptive for the school to have kids tricking in but she doing her absolute best and I feel there's no leeway in the system for cases like this.

Let's just say I'm very grateful the register isn't until 25 mins after their official start time 😬

Haha! Me too!! Haven't been late yet but my kid is only in reception so there's soooo many more opportunities

To the local authority I believe. Definitely not the school.

5 days = 10 absences as morning and afternoon registration counts.

It now says within a three year period. Unless there's additional information that I've missed.

I've never been on a term time holiday but I know of families whose jobs are restricted with what time they can take or costs are too high.

I teach in a sen school and I believe most of our holiday (the first anyway) are granted as exceptional circumstances as our children and their families could not cope in a busy setting that the school holidays bring.

There's so many nuances I think. One policy for all does not provide equity.

We've always taken ours out and paid the fine but probably won't now because of the court bit. What we will do is take them out just before of after school holidays by less than 5 days. Still cheaper but no fine. Assume lots of people will do this and then they'll start fining after 15 mins of missed school. If you're not repeatedly off I personally don't see the issue at all.

And our junior school marked a child's absence as unauthorised for his grandad's funeral. BATSHIT.