Term time holidays

[roundtable]

Apologies if there is already a thread on this.

During August this year, the fining system of parents for taking children out of school for term time holidays is going to be nationalised. The local authorities (not the school or the teachers they don't do the fining) will have the ability to fine £80 per parent per child for the 'first offence'. Second term time holidays £160 per parent per child. Third could result in prosecution and if found guilty failure to safeguard children's education can be added to show up on any dbs applied for.

I'm surprised there hasn't been more outrage to be honest. Most parents don't seem to know about it yet. I think it's a nonsense. Most parents who chose a family holiday in term time are not the persistent absentees. I'm a teacher and I can't speak for all of them but having a term time holiday isn't really something that gets me in a tizzy. There are far more pressing concerns than that. Although, dont ask me to send home the work they've missed!

I can't take term time holidays so I've no real skin in this game but if I could - of course I would! I believe it should be at the head teacher's discretion as it used to be. A head knows whether or not a particular family has an issue with attendance and could authorise it accordingly.

Everything is so expensive for a lot of families at the moment and life can be hard. Taking away the opportunity for a family ro spend some quality time together in an affordable way just seem really sad. Lots of mine and my children's best memories are holiday related. Or am I being unreasonable?

(Unless you play the system and take a term time holidays every other year as it's within a 3 year period.)

I'm fully expecting some replies of - 'well I never went on a family holiday in term time as a child and I'm fine' and words like 'parents are so entitled' to be used but I think it's very such a shame that people's quality of life seems to be getting worse, not better. Surely it should be the other way around?

I didn't see the three year thing mentioned in your screenshot, and I haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere previously either. If it's within a three year period that's quite obviously utter insanity 😂 If it's a 10 week period I think it's pretty fair and reasonable.

Either way, I'm quite glad it's going to be the same rule for the whole country now! The different rules have been a pain in the arse for someone like me who lives right on the border between two different local authorities with very different rules. It's caused a lot of unnecessary confusion!

Is this just England? I have friends in wales and they're allowed a 2 week holiday every year outside of holidays and no fines or issues with it.

People talk about the cost, but that's in the summer.

People seem to forget that there's half term as well.

I much preferred going away in May half term - cheaper and better weather. A couple of times we took ds out of school on the Friday so that we could get a slightly longer break especially if the Monday after half term was an INSET day.

With the climate being all over the place, it's quite likely that February will be a nice time to go somewhere like Cornwall anyway!

There should be discretion for people in jobs that don't allow flexibility like being in the Army and for things like weddings, but otherwise people just need to be a bit creative.

Yes I think so.

Also inset days are included. So the school puts in an inset day. You take that week off and the inset is 2 sessions. Even tho school is not open to pupils. Again, BATSHIT.

Meh. Can't get worked up about it myself. Holidays are not a life essential.

What the rolling 10 week bit means is that within 10 weeks, if you had 10 late marks or 10 unauthorised absence- that counts for one whole offence. In 3 years it then resets. The 3 years part is in brackets on the 2nd and 3rd offence.

So parents might think, well I will take 3 days holiday and that will be fine and then within the 10 weeks the car breaks down so they're late, accident etc 4 times and that would trigger a penalty notice.

Yes I forgot to add this in my op. Absolutely bonkers to include inset days! Especially as they were originally taken from the school holidays.

Ahh, found the 3 year thing -

"In the case of repeated fines, if a parent receives a second fine for the same child within any three-year period, this will be charged at the higher rate of £160.

Fines per parent will be capped to two fines within any three-year period. Once this limit has been reached, other action like a parenting order or prosecution will be considered."

(From gov.uk)

You can still take 4.5 days off in a 10 week period without being fined, which is the bit I personally find reasonable.

No kid needs to miss a week of school and learning for a week in Tenerife.

I hope they enforce it.

The only real life essentials are oxygen, food water, shelter and warmth.

It's a shame standards of living for some are deteriorating. I'm lucky that I can afford to holiday in term time. I've seen families that struggle and the holiday is a massive highlight to an otherwise difficult life. Sometimes it's paid for by grandparents. Sometimes it's a week at a caravan park. It's not always people flying abroad. Which I think is where most minds automatically go.

It used to be at a head's discretion, so they could give permission if it was the only time parents could get time off, or an autistic child needed to go when it was quieter, or that's when someone had offered them free use of a caravan that meant they could actually afford a holiday at all.

The problems with that were that people felt entitled to claim it so they could go on a more luxurious holiday than they would be able to afford in termtime, and headteacher's discretion must have made it hard for them - especially if they felt it should be authorised for one family but not another.

I wonder if it would be better if term-time holidays could be sanctioned by application, with a decision made at one step removed from the school - either someone at the LA, or perhaps a neighbouring head. Then if a head feels there is a good reason, they can support the application, but if the answer is no, then they are merely conveying the bad news, rather than being the killjoy saying the ski-trip isn't a good enough reason.

Yes, sorry, I clearly just wasn't reading properly! I think there needs to be a distinction between being late and being absent.

May half term is still really expensive. Sometimes flights are more expensive than August depending on when you go!

Schools have lots of holiday time. Take your family away then.
If you can't afford to go abroad, don't go abroad.

We've also been told that inset days count for non attendance which frankly is fucking insane.

It isn’t just abroad though. Going anywhere in the UK in school holidays prices many families out.

The rules don't apply for children in private schools so for that reason alone the policy is entirely unreasonable. One rule for the rich, another for the plebs. Wouldn't want to interfere with little Horatio's sailing expedition now!

Lots of things aren't essential. If we only did the bare essentials we'd all have very very sad lives.

Plus they have longer holidays anyway so can benefit from term time prices as it stands. Weird how their education isn't as 'important' that they can have many extra weeks off.

Yeah, but it's not going to damage a child by not going on holiday. You can enjoy family time at home too.

My DS school hasn't even mentioned the change to parents yet. I only know about it through friends that are teachers.
I think schools need to at least inform parents that it is now mandatory for school to fine unauthorised absences esp. with a school that doesn't currently fine.

We aren't a family that usually takes term time holidays so it wouldn't really effect us. Although we are taking a term time holiday this year the week after half term for a family wedding so we will get hit by the fines.

You say that. As someone who didn't go abroad until a school trip as a teenager it really did affect me. We still had other "nice times " but I felt so left out and less-than for such a long time. And also like we all want our kids to experience things right. It's hard to deny that when you can do it but school is telling you not to, especially when in a lot of cases, school itself is not perfect.

No, but they're also not something that only rich children should get to have.

My 8 year old was allowed 2 days off just before half term, to attend a wedding abroad (where my husband is from) where they had brought it forward due to grooms mum only having a few weeks to live. My 4 year old who was flower girl at this wedding, and in a different school (infants) was not allowed, despite being below statutory school age, and I got a very snooty letter from her head.
We have never taken termtime holiday before, they have excellent attendance.

There should be some distinction between taking a few termtime days off for a one off family event where we have no control on when it is. And taking a holiday off in termtime because it's cheaper