Term time holidays

[roundtable]

Apologies if there is already a thread on this.

During August this year, the fining system of parents for taking children out of school for term time holidays is going to be nationalised. The local authorities (not the school or the teachers they don't do the fining) will have the ability to fine £80 per parent per child for the 'first offence'. Second term time holidays £160 per parent per child. Third could result in prosecution and if found guilty failure to safeguard children's education can be added to show up on any dbs applied for.

I'm surprised there hasn't been more outrage to be honest. Most parents don't seem to know about it yet. I think it's a nonsense. Most parents who chose a family holiday in term time are not the persistent absentees. I'm a teacher and I can't speak for all of them but having a term time holiday isn't really something that gets me in a tizzy. There are far more pressing concerns than that. Although, dont ask me to send home the work they've missed!

I can't take term time holidays so I've no real skin in this game but if I could - of course I would! I believe it should be at the head teacher's discretion as it used to be. A head knows whether or not a particular family has an issue with attendance and could authorise it accordingly.

Everything is so expensive for a lot of families at the moment and life can be hard. Taking away the opportunity for a family ro spend some quality time together in an affordable way just seem really sad. Lots of mine and my children's best memories are holiday related. Or am I being unreasonable?

(Unless you play the system and take a term time holidays every other year as it's within a 3 year period.)

I'm fully expecting some replies of - 'well I never went on a family holiday in term time as a child and I'm fine' and words like 'parents are so entitled' to be used but I think it's very such a shame that people's quality of life seems to be getting worse, not better. Surely it should be the other way around?

The inset days things has got to be bollocks. Otherwise surely the schools themselves would be protesting because everyone would be missing ten sessions before even getting started. We use Arbor and it definitely doesn't count insets. (But is that also changing?)

So to check my understanding, as long as I leave at least 10 school weeks between every nine absences, I can crack on?

(And BTW I won't the most I've ever done is two days/four sessions, but it's always good to understand).

We were authorised to take DDs out for a week to go skiing... as their dad is in the Army and that was his allocated leave. Armed Forces have an exemption due to the allocated leave...

It would be reasonable to suggest that other professions in the same position were also extended this courtesy!

YANBU but I don't understand how working parents have enough leave to take term time holidays plus cover childcare in the school holidays too.

This, i never know how people manage this. The holidays are hard enough to cover as it is.

It's not just going abroad though. I tried finding a week in a haven in the August school hols in Cornwall/ Devon / Dorset area and for 2 adults, 2 kids it's £2k. For a caravan. With no food included. With the very real possibility it will piss it down all week and I'll spend another £500 on the 2p machines in the arcade while we shelter from the great British weather. No thanks!

provided the children don't have disabilities it's easy to find clubs here for the school hols. Different story for those with SN.

I work from home with the kids around.
My employer allows this.
plus we are allowed to buy an extra 2 weeks holiday on top of our annual leave

The amount of money we saved on flights by going to Spain two days early for May half term was about ten times the price of two days at holiday club.

I'm just going to have to potentially accept a fine. We always stick to school holidays but in a couple of years we're going to New Zealand and that will be during Easter holiday (still summer there).
Due to the fight times we'll need to pull her out of school 4 days before they break up, not a cost thing, it's to maximise our time over there.

Each parent is also entitled to 18 weeks of unpaid leave per child up to the age of 18. You can take up to 4 weeks a year. Obviously no one wants to take unpaid leave but the option is there if you need it. Your employer is supposed to track this but I work in HR and I’ve never been asked to account for it.

I’ve got a generous holiday allowance - 33 days plus I compress to 4 days so 27 actual working days to take account of my longer working day, DH has 24 which is crap but he can flex bank holidays. We can both buy a week so that’s how we would manage it. Again appreciate that not everyone can do this.

I thought we had the best holiday allowance ever but so many new starters are complaining they’ve lost holidays to join us, some had a basic 38 days!!!

Agree that children should get something like 2 weeks annual leave, subject to teacher and headteacher agreement.

a minimum absence level could be considered as part of the Headteacher and class teacher guidance. Its not a given that all frequently absent children will be behind and cause problems for the teacher to keep the class pace up but for those children that will struggle I can see why it shouldn't be approved.

Wales have the sensible approach. I take my kids out for a week(5 days off) every year. The school always approve it, as long as there attendance is fairly good.

I'm glad I live in Scotland. Our education system is far from perfect but the attitude to absence and fining seems madness as an outsider.

We are currently enjoying a term time holiday
We haven't Been away anywhere for six years
My oldest sin is,at college and his course has finished early and my youngest is severely autistic and goes to a special school,
School approved it straight away and told us to have a lovely time.

This is the way. Good attendance usually? - then enjoy your holiday!

A cousin of mine has taken his kids away for the week this week (A Year 6 DD - which as a teacher I can a bit understand, Year 6 are mostly on holding activities by this point in the year) and a Year 3 DS. They're quite wealthy (or seem to be) and are always on holiday it seems!

In my current Year 5 class, there are two kids off on holiday, one is in Turkey, and another in Tenerife. The one in Tenerife told her friends to keep it a secret, but her friends had spilled the beans by 9:15am!

Crikey. I thought the free school dinners for the younger ages was a government funded thing.
So are they saying if you want them you have to pay or they’re not serving them to anyone?

I really hope this turns out to not be true. I don’t see how they can fine someone for missing 10 sessions if you’ve missed 8! Next they’ll have parents dropping off kids on inset days!

What if you can afford it but can't get time off work then? You get penalized for your job

It’s also not even proven that missing a week for a holiday has any impact on education and results at 16/18 etc
Its just a stupid money making scheme that I’m pretty sure Michael Gove came up with.

Another ons who's glad she's in Scotland! DD has had 2 term time holidays so far and another 2 to come but she's in primary school. Once she's in secondary we won't do it.

But due to our jobs we can't really go anywhere during summer holidays as work is too busy.

Headteacher said fines are aimed at below 90% attendance

There is a huge amount of evidence supporting the fact that low attendance has a negative effect on outcomes. That is why all these rules exist.

One week out of an entire education won’t make any difference but one or two weeks a year plus normal time off for illness can make a big difference for some children. Some children will cope with absence easily but others need as much school support as they can get. For those children, parents would do better to have a weeks camping in the holidays instead of a week in Tenerife in term time.

Is still cheaper than a holiday in the actual holidays. Pisses me right off that all my non teacher friends do term time cheaply, in nice hotels, and we pay more for one generally a bit shit.

It also means that if my friends want me to come on holiday with them, they all have to pay more and go at a set time.

We do school bus some are flying home this week Latvia etc. July prices soar so cant blame parents. We in Dublin.

Here's the thing that I can't say without the anonymity of the internet.

We've taken DC out of school for a number of holidays. Both short and long. And other things like theatre trips etc.

Only been fined once but paid it happily as we saved £5k on the flights by travelling when we did.

I can say with confidence that no damage has been done to DC education.

They have never missed a homework, did all school work in Covid. And have been accepted to highly selective secondary schools.

Travelling has only further broadened their minds and desire to learn and explore.

Teachers have always waved them off with an "enjoy your holiday" (we've always been honest)

There are far more kids, missing many more lessons, due to lateness, not going in due to fake illnesses just because they don't feel like it. Etc etc.

We'll pay the fines.

But it feels a bit unfair when those who genuinely value education get fined either because we're honest about our absences or because we want to show our children the rest of the world.