Child who enjoys being deceitful

[Haveyouanyjam]

Not so much an AIBU but a WWYD with a child who genuinely enjoys/gets thrills out of doing things they know they aren’t supposed to?

Sneaking around after being put to bed, stealing food, accessing things they aren’t allowed. Each of these things we’ve tried to tackle individually with an honest and open approach about why they are happening and what we can do to support them not to feel the need to do them, but it seems to always be something new and they have admitted getting enjoyment out of sneaking around.

just punish - plenty of children enjoy being naughty, there often isn't a higher cause! You just have to make sure life is nicer when they behave then when they don't.

Sorry how can a child “steal food”? Do you mean from a shop?

Aside from that, how old are they? So I can suggest age appropriate tactics?

Why is your child hungry to a point that they need to steal food?

How old are they?

Have you tried not rewarding the behaviour with attention? Maybe ignore the sneaking around, but if the child eats the ice-cream, for example, then there's none for dessert. No fuss, just a natural consequence.

FGS, the OP said clearly that the child does it for fun, not because they are hungry.

Age is important here. There is a reason your child is doing it and it is not because they were born with a desire to be ' deceitful '.

How old are they?

He’s 9, was getting out of bed and sneaking downstairs and taking food (mostly sweets) out of the cupboard. After I caught him we had an honest conversation about how long it had been going on and why, and highlighted he could ask for sweets at other times, and I increased protein to try and ensure he wasn’t hungry at bedtime etc. That hasn’t recurred but it always seems to be something. He has previously said he behaves at school because ‘there’s always someone watching’ - he did live somewhere previously where he was allowed to get away with a lot of poor behaviour because parent was drinking etc but it’s been years now. I know he believes he should be able to do what he wants and no one should stop him and he is in counselling and due to have therapy but just wondering if there’s any tips as I feel like I’ve tried every approach and am pulling my hair out.

Just because the OP thinks this is the case doesn’t mean that it actually is. I would be suspicious of anyone blatantly calling their child deceitful. There is a reason for everything - kids don’t steal food for fun.

Have tried natural consequences, ie tiredness if staying up late, has lost a club he used to go to because it was quite late, but once one issue stops it feels like he just moves into something else. Doesn’t feel like a cry for attention as he genuinely tries (and has at times) gotten away with behaviours long term.

Yeah they do. My kid would pig out on sweets in secret, hide wrappers behind their bed and be mysteriously full at mealtimes, refusing to eat what I'd cooked. It was soul destroying. And yeah, even stole from shops.

same consequences everytime. boring and predictable
no drama
perhaps injecting a silliness into everyday life. so maybe more board/card games with elements of bluffing in or family escape room
& just spitballing but what about delegating him a specific role ie food/event planner for a night or something, to give a sense of responsibility within the family & to reframe him from labelling himself as naughty/sneaky

Please be clear. We do not let him go hungry ever. He has issues around food that are wider but it’s the secretive behaviour and the excitement that comes with it that I am asking about. I haven’t simply assumed this, he has said it.

He has deep issues due to significant trauma, and obviously we are seeking help for that. He is also awaiting assessment for ADHD and I know thrill seeking can be a characteristic.

Just asking for any tips or guidance while we seek the proper support. I adore the boy but raising a child who has been parented (very poorly) by someone else for years, is a challenge.

I'm not an expert on this but this type of behaviour is known in cases where there has been neglect. It's a bit like stealing. I understand that these kids will do it almost like a survival instinct; no one is going to take care of me so I will make sure I take care of myself. I imagine this takes years of consistent love and care to undo.

There's just something about your tone or how you are seeing things that I think you need to visit tbh. You are seeing this kid as some naughty, deceitful being. He needs some love and understanding in your approach because if I can sense this negativity in your language about this child, he absolutely will feel it.

How about you just don't buy sweets. Or if you do they are hidden away where he isn't aware and he has to ask you for them.

Instead of punishing this poor kid, offer rewards for positive behaviour. Stop calling him deceitful as a start.

Thank you. That seems like very good advice and will definitely give it all a go.

This 100%. You've just echoed what I have written!

Where have I said I’ve punished him? He is absolutely consistently rewarded for positive behaviour. It is a pattern of deceitful behaviour, that is what it is. He often shows no remorse or doubles down that he should be able to do what he wants. I am deeply concerned that the child I love will go on to offend quite seriously if this behaviour continues (other reasons for this), and I don’t think sugar coating will help.

The food situation was met with love and support. It is him saying he enjoys doing things he is not supposed to and this is supported by a continued pattern of behaviour. I’m not ‘seeing it that way’ that is what it is. I am asking for help to deal with it in a positive way as feel like meeting him with love and understanding seems to have little impact.

If he has been badly parented and has had very few consequences plus an alcoholic parent it is very very normal for children to hoard food and to not stick to boundaries.

This is because they have learned at a behavioural level that their parent will not feed them and will not be consistent and that in order to survive they need to look to themselves.

You can't undo this with chats. He knows that people are unreliable and when you say he can always ask for sweets if he needs them he will remember the unreliable and inconsistent alcoholic who might have said similar and then refused or been passed out drunk,

If you don't want him eating sweets don't have them in the house, have food available for him to eat that's healthier.

ridiculous comment
I am guessing he isn't stealing mashed potatoes and bread, more like sweets, biscuits, crisps etc. children don't eat those things because they are hungry, it's more because they want them.

I know it will take years to undo, it has been years of him living with me now, where he is fed and loved and supported consistently and I will continue to do all of those. I have no problem with him eating sweets. It’s not the food that’s the issue. He believes if he wants something, he should be allowed to have it. That he should be allowed to do whatever he wants. Again, his words and are obviously because of the inconsistent parenting he received, I am not blaming him, just looking for what I can do to help other than what I am already doing.

My issue is, he enjoys doing things he knows he’s not allowed to do, for the reason that he knows he’s not allowed to do them. It’s a thrill. Any tips on how to support him to deal with that in a healthy way are welcome.

It's aimed at poster suggesting you punish OP.
Language is so so powerful. Kids feel everything and he will feel this view that you have. Try stop seeing him as deceitful.

My son is Autistic/ADHD and can be obsessed with sugar and sweets. He tries to sneak stuff all the time. It really isn't that big a deal. They often crave a dopamine hit and it is because there is an issue in their brain regards dopamine.

My answer to this problem is just don't buy it. It's the only way I could have any boundaries. He now has significantly less sugar and does fine. Sugar also impacts behaviour alot with ADHD ( if that's what's going on).

The thrill seeking is also a major thing.

I cannot emphasise positive encouragement enough but also accepting that maybe he's just different and you have to work with that.

I would just pick the biggest issue you have and work on one thing at a time. Offer him a great reward. Something he loves or really wants if he follows the rules on this one big behaviour change. Don't do it all at once.

Don't let your fear of what he will become cloud you. I've been there. He'll be capable of so much more than you realise

Wait, you have said when he does something wrong, you talk with him and there isn’t a recurrence but then he moves on to something else,

This isn’t a child that is purposely defying you. This is a child that through neglect has no idea what the boundaries are. He is going to test for them. Just keep responding with love and support, but it is also important to tell him why he should follow your rules. He won’t like “because I said so” and so on- because his younger years of trauma have led him to have a distrust of adult rules.

ADHD also has poor impulse control, so he may do things without thinking them through. You may think it’s obvious he should know he isn’t supposed to do x or y, but he won’t have thought that far ahead.

I think you are being overly dramatic by thinking he will end up being a criminal.

Can you break the cycle of stealing food by giving him a box for under his bed and filling it with a mixture of good food and treats that he can help himself to, without having to resort to stealing, and putting a decent lock on the treats presses elsewhere in the house. Those mini bags of breakfast cereals, treat bars apples, bananas, crisps, bars, etc. He does sound to have issues as you say and I see that you are doing your best to get him help. In the meantime if he had his own box of snacks/treats that he can choose himself, would it help as means he doesn't have to steal and can help himself when he wants. It also gives him reassurance there is food available whenever he needs it. I read a lot of Cathy Glass books, she is a foster carer for children and she often talks about children who have been starved or deprived of food in a family setting before they came to her, hiding or sneaking food for the bad times, if that makes sense. I'm not sure if this applies to the child in question here but could be worth considering

Alcoholics are inconsistent parents. If the child has spent multiple years being brought up by them then he will have acquired strategies to survive.

Often alcoholics don't feed their children regularly. They prioritise alcohol over their own or others food. He will have learnt that if he wants to get fed regularly he needs to take food from the family store and save it in a place where his parent cannot find it. That way he can eat a little bit each day until the next time the parent buys food rather than the parent eating it and him going hungry.

Equally, he's going to need to lie to the parent about where that food has gone.

Alcoholic parents often get into rages and shout at and try to hit children, he's going to learn to lie in order to try to stop the rages and prevent the abuse.

He has learnt survival skills that kept him eating and reduced the risk of physical abuse.

You can teach him survival skills that are better fitted for your family, where you will actually feed him and you won't abuse him.

But words are cheap and he can't afford to believe your words. Only your actions over a long period of time will deactivate the food hoarding and the lying,