Child who enjoys being deceitful

[Haveyouanyjam]

Not so much an AIBU but a WWYD with a child who genuinely enjoys/gets thrills out of doing things they know they aren’t supposed to?

Sneaking around after being put to bed, stealing food, accessing things they aren’t allowed. Each of these things we’ve tried to tackle individually with an honest and open approach about why they are happening and what we can do to support them not to feel the need to do them, but it seems to always be something new and they have admitted getting enjoyment out of sneaking around.

If he's been in a neglectful home he could have attachment issues.

It's very common for children with attachment issues to feel more in control when there's chaos. This can be for a variety of reasons but the main ones are - that's their norm and they sabotage security in case they are moved again. It's easier to do wrong to give a reason to push people away than be good and then get moved elsewhere. (Iyswim?)

So you are doing the right things by being open. Remind him you love him whatever and don't like the behaviour and that he doesn't need to be sneaky. Create (as someone said above) chaos that is fun. Do silly things. Have a look at the replay type activities. They involve games such as sticking stickers on each other in mirror or popping bubbles and you tell someone which body part to pop them with.

But also support him to not be able to do the silly things. Have sweets somewhere he can't get access to them. Take away the desire to do negative things and replace with positive activities where he gets attention without needing to seek it.

But most of all keep doing what you're doing. You clearly care for him and those boundaries and working through the issues with constantly provide him with the love and security he's craving.

Some children crave boundaries and rules to feel stability in there everyday. Which of course is not to say he should be punished.
Make sure you are firm and tell him what you will do to prevent the behaviour - we do not eat sweets at bed time and I am making sure you don't have access to them late as I know how tempting they are. I will have some for you at x time and I'll make you your favourite breakfast.

Don't blame, make sure you confirm the rules every time, empathise, show you care but Hold the boundaries every time.

Love, care, give lots of reasons to smile and laugh to help with healing down the trauma and to strengthen your bond. The stronger your bond - less challenging behaviour.

He doesn't enjoy it even if he says he dies. He is just trying to figure out how stable this (presumably) newish environment is. Children like rules even though they'll never say it.
And please remember he is a good inside child. Always start from that presumption.

That all sounds tricky, and like you're doing your best in a difficult and frustrating situation.

From what you've said, it might be worth investigating whether he also has (FASD) Foetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (as well as ADHD), if his birth mum may have consumed alcohol during her pregnancy with him. I'm an adoptive parent of two children diagnosed with FASD, with one also diagnosed with Autism. I can relate to some of the issues you are having, and FASD does affect things like impulse control and understanding and remembering cause and effect (e.g. if I eat a load of sweets the natural consequence is I might feel sick and another consequence is I will likely be in trouble if I'm found out!).

There are overlaps in the types of behaviour you are describing which could be explained by a combination of FASD/ADHD/trauma/ACEs (adverse childhood experiences), and agree that therapeutic support would be helpful, we have had Theraplay and training on therapeutic parenting from social workers which has been useful and effective (and more help than CAMHS). All the best to you all.

I wonder if he is testing the boundaries?

Without knowing it. To see if you will still be there, still be loving and still be consistent, no matter what?

Just because you're not seeing the changes you want to see yet, it doesn't mean that what you're doing isn't working. There is a huge amount to undo.

I may be completely off side here, but, how about having some sort of puzzle box that he has to solve in order to get to a "clandestine" treat? He sounds like a bright kid, and may get that dopamine hit from solving the puzzle and accessing the treat.

Thanks for the replies. Will definitely look into trauma informed parenting. He had social services involved previously but as they had no concerns about my parenting the focus understandably went elsewhere. I have asked for support and his school are great but the local authority haven’t had much to offer. I will try and push for this specifically.

He plays as many sports as we can get him into and we do active things every day but will definitely try more silly play and other structured activities that provide adrenaline, as the issue with being silly at home is that he often gets hyped up and carried away and that can tip into aggression. He finds it very hard to stop and bring himself back down and can become angry very quickly if the ‘fun’ has to stop. We do lots of time warning and try and follow up with a calmer activity he enjoys but it ends in meltdowns if he and his toddler sister are just left to reign free with silly play.

I don’t judge or criticise my child for his behaviours or beliefs but that doesn’t mean I can’t acknowledge them as an issue. He has learned all of this from somewhere, but he is reaching an age where he will face significant consequences outside of home if his behaviour carries on, so I am doing what I can at this crucial time, alongside the CAMHS input.

Like the puzzle idea but I would have to be able to pitch it just right - he likes some
challenge but gets frustrated easily and if I made it too hard by accident he would be furious with me ha! He would think I had deliberately set him up to fail to stop him from getting what he wants (I obviously would never do this but previous parental figure seems to have played many mind games with the poor kid). He’s been permanently with me three years but there has been further change recently that I think means he is now retesting all the boundaries to see if there’s anything that’s changed.

Does your local authority offer Solihull Approach classes for parents? I think this might be very helpful for your present situation.

It sounds really hard, OP. I didn't mean what I said to sound like I thought otherwise. It's more that my understanding is that you get better results if you think of all of this as a trauma response rather than him being entitled or difficult for the sake of it. I bet it often looks and sounds like he is being deliberately difficult, and that must be very hard for you. But there's a very confused and sad little boy under there by the sound of it who can't quite believe that the adults around him now have his back. I definitely agree with pushing the LA for more help in terms of parenting from a trauma informed approach.

OP you sound like you are really trying your best here and coming at it with love. I don't have experience with trauma or ADHD, but you asked what would you do?

If it were me (now that you've tried to talk it through, with kindness) I would take the focus off that behaviour. Like ignore it or give it a brief and stern "hmmm you know how i feel". It's funny that when he acts up you show love. Maybe he is seeking more of that love?

Instead I would try and spend a lot of time building a connection with him in a genuine and respectful way. Invest time in teaching him things that build his confidence. Like cooking, fixing a bike, or something else "normal" but useful that might make him feel worthwhile. Or just spending lots of time together when he's not in trouble. Just my thoughts.