To think Jewish people are the scapegoats of humanity?

[FactsNotFictionOnly]

I have not posted on the CITME board as although the current conflict is relevant, that is not the main point of this thread.

I do not mean to cause any offence to Jewish people. In fact the opposite.

IF THIS POST IS DELETED BECAUSE IT OFFENDS NON JEWISH PEOPLE, THEN PLEASE RESPOND WITH WHY YOU FIND IT OFFENSIVE BEFORE REPORTING.

I am an atheist and think all religion should be consigned to history books so have no affiliation with any faith but I found the reaction to Oct 7th shocking with almost immediate protests against Israel (the victim) in favour of the ‘freedom fighters’ (the agressors). The denials that atrocities happened, the antisemitism, horrifying comments on SM which are still allowed to stand to this day.

Never before in my life (and I’m getting on a bit) have I seen that reaction of hatred to any country that has been the victim of any kind of terrorist attack or act of war anywhere in the world. Never before have I been aware of the kind of atrocities committed in Israel on such a large scale by a neighbouring country, filmed by the perpetrators, either.

I had heard comments made about ‘the Jews’ at various stages in my life, how they run the world, the banks, the media etc but never really thought much about it or believed it.

I noticed an absolutely blatant lie that popped up on SM yesterday with thousands of comments agreeing with the poster so I responded (never normally do) saying so with evidence and the abuse I got was unbelievable.

That made me do a bit more research on the persecution of Jewish people through history and I was pretty shocked that they were blamed for the death of Jesus, murdering Christian children as sacrifices to be baked into flatbreads, the Black Death, World War 1, 9/11, Covid. All totally false and a lot of the time because it was a way of debtors not paying money they owed to the Jewish people who were the world’s money lenders as it was prohibited in Christianity and Islam and Jewish people were prohibited from other work.

Each time they were blamed for something whole communities were burned to death or had to flee. They were banished from England in the 12th century as well as lots of other European countries. Now I understand why there is so much hatred from the UK and Europeans as these ‘legends’ persist.

Of course in the Middle East from 586 BC they were persecuted where they were killed, forced to convert to Christianity (or pretend to to stay alive) before Islam took over, treated as 2nd class citizens, subject to high taxes and strict rules, regular pogroms and were also forced to leave their homes in their hundreds of thousands.

This was all before a return to Israel was even a thing so there was no ‘Zionism’ then which is currently the excuse for the widespread hatred of Jewish people.

Even before this current conflict there seems to have been a deliberate misunderstanding of the situation in the Middle East with a lot of relevant history missed out out.

Such as the Ottoman Empire ruled the area directly before the Mandate of Palestine and they referred to it as Southern Syria. There were no Palestinians only Arabs. Why didn’t they ‘freedom fight’ the Ottomans for their own State as surely they were occupied under the Ottomans too if they believe the land is all theirs?

I have never seen references to Palestinians being ‘occupied’ by the British either. Weird as they believe the land is theirs and always was theirs - from the River to the Sea.

Why do a lot of people ignore the constant terrorist attacks as the reason why not only Israel, but Egypt too, had to blockade Gaza after a terrorist group with a known mandate to annihilate Israel and kill Jews was elected to govern it by it’s citizens?

Why are people not understanding that this war is not a ‘normal’ war with normal rules of engagement between two uniformed military forces where civilians are afforded protection by their government, military hardware, munitions and bases are placed outside of civilian areas and civilians including children are not involved in military action by firing rockets, RPGs, shootings, stabbings, throwing IEDs, holding hostages in their homes and taking part in barbaric murders, rapes, burning people including children alive and taking hostages?

It is absolutely horrific that civilians have been killed in such a high number or at all but a lot of the deaths can be explained as above and are all due to the war Hamas started.

Why are Hamas not being publicly pressured by Palestinian protestors to give themselves up?

The only (and tiny) Jewish State in the world is now even being persecuted for defending itself against massive neighbouring states who want to wipe it out.

Has there ever been such a forensic examination of any other war while in progress as in this one?

The propaganda and false information circulating before and during this conflict has made it all too clear to see how the Holocaust happened and it’s terrifying to see. I used to watch films on the subject and wonder how could so many people have stood by and let it happen. Now we can all see how.

How can a tiny race of 1% of the population who have achieved more than any other race alive today, be so hated.

Is it jealousy of their success or the hundreds of years of lies that have been brainwashed down generations?

AIBU?

https://www.historytoday.com/archive/why-were-jews-persecuted

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Well said.

As a Jewish person I thank you for your post.
We have been around for a long time, nearly 6000 years, and we have been persecuted for many of them. We have festivals which are celebrated due to said persecution and eventual release - Passover, Purim, Chanukah and fast days (9 of Av in particular).
My ancestors left Eastern Europe in the late 1800s due to the pogroms and now we are experiencing ridiculous amounts of antisemitism in a civilised, modern society.
We are not responsible for Israel’s govt, although I would like to see Hamas wiped off the earth I am also sad to see the deaths in Gaza, but unfortunately Hamas are not good for anyone and as long as they exist, Israel is in trouble.
I agree in general a lot of antisemitism comes from jealousy and ignorance as on the whole Jewish people do well in society as that’s our culture. However, we definitely don’t run the world. The only Jewish leader I can name outside Israel is Zelenskyy and he’s having a right old shit time
Oct 7 has been massively downplayed by the media and you barely hear about the hostages now in bbc or whatever, it’s shocking.

Btw for all the idiots in here, why don’t you actually read about the history of Israel’s existence before you start spouting off?

The bar is low then

This .

I've never understood the historical hatred of Jewish people , they don't go courting for violence with neighbours.
I think most of the kids protesting about Palestine are just university brainwashed sheep .

Agree and it's nice OP that you post this. My brother in law is an ex conspiracy theorist (!) of many years and he says the Jewish angle was just always an easy win, because new conspiracy theories now all compete to make money out of people following them, so for a quick win, you need to jump on really recognisable conspiracy concepts and historically the Jewish angle is always one of the easiest.

The voting results would indicate that you're not exactly far off the mark, @FactsNotFictionOnly .

Jewish schools and nurseries in the UK had to increase security from Monday October 9th because of threats to the Jewish community following Hamas' massacre two days prior. I think a lot of people would be surprised as to how much was already being spent on security at Jewish schools and institutions prior to October 7th... Our Jewish state school has a "voluntary contribution" of £1600 per child per year to help cover the cost of security because the millions being provided by government simply aren't enough to keep Jewish people safe.

People love to hate Jewish people and they always have done. Not sure why people can't just acknowledge that's the case without whataboutery? It's not exactly some kind of novel, well-hidden concept. There has historically been very little shame attached to the idea of hating Jews - it's been actively encouraged. There was no need to hide it, so not sure why it's being so heavily denied or minimised now.

The origins of antisemitism date to long before the Catholic church. Remember who built the pyramids?

@EberswalderStrasse i agree with every word of your post

I mean, the IDF is pretty good but I'm not sure I fancy their chances against Emperor Palpatine 😂

@FactsNotFictionOnly Time magazine had an article on this in Feb 2024 entitled "The New Antisemitism".

https://time.com/6763293/antisemitism/

‘How can a tiny race of 1% of the population who have achieved more than any other race alive today, be so hated.’

I take issue with this statement from the OP above. This sounds like some master race stuff and I find it deeply offensive. Can it please be explained how Jewish people have achieved more than any other race?

While I don't personally like or agree with that statement, I'm wondering why that is the only part of the post you've decided to respond to? I'm hoping it's just oversight on your part 😊

If you had said "of Europe" I would have agreed up to a point, but not "of humanity".

I don't think the Japanese, Zulus, Inuit (to name just a few) care one way or the other.

Anyone who knows anything about world history knows that Jewish people have been persecuted for centuries. Even if you are not Jewish yourself.

Because I’m not getting involved in a tit for tat about antisemitism and Islamophobia. Its a thousands of years old argument that be resolved today on Mumsnet. If people just stood by the old adage ‘treat others as you would like to be treated yourself’ it would be all good.

However, I’m not going to read that one group of people are supposedly better than all others and not respond.

Not sure why you consider any of this a "tit for tat about antisemitism and Islamophobia"? Part of the point being made is that antisemitism has been around for longer than other religions, including Islam, have even existed. That's how long Jewish people have been persecuted. It's mind-boggling, isn't it?

It comes across a bit as though anti-Semitism doesn't bother you, or give you cause for concern since you are choosing to not even mention it?More than happy to be corrected on that front. Actually, I'd love it if I were wrong. I'm also still unclear why you felt the need to even mention Islamophobia on a thread about anti-Semitism.

The Japanese managed some solid antisemitism during WWII.
All the Jews in Singapore were interned, just for being Jews.

OP, YANBU. The incredibly scrutiny of Israel compared to many worse governments says it all, really.

It's not just of Europe though. It's way more wide-spread than that.

Your last sentence is vile.

By the way...what's your definition of a Zionist?

I agree with this. I feel Israel’s retaliation for the horrific events in October are disproportionate and wrong, but I’m also disgusted by how Jewish people are treated in the U.K. (and other countries). Like you said as law abiding, hard working, very British people they’re an easy target because they quietly get on with things, make little fuss and are ‘white’ (in speech marks because I know some Jews are not white).

I’m sick of the bully boy left and the way it’s every bit as bad as the ‘right wing fascists’ it purports to be against.

I'm happy you've made this post. It's very true what you're saying. I'm not Jewish, nor do I have any links with them. But I see it the same way you do, without any prejudice nor influence. I feel as though everyone is brainwashed by social media, by blindly supporting Palestine. I feel very sorry for the Jewish population everywhere, they are targeted and disliked by many.

My lovely friend even commented on the Jewish, being too rich and powerful?! My father who likes everyone, said Jewish people were bad and steal money?! Wtf where is all this coming from?! I asked them both why they said it, they didn't know. But felt as though it were true? It seems to be acceptable to be racist towards Jewish people. Stupid people get brainwashed more easily.

So you don't think anti-Semitism, both historically and now, is worth discussing? You seem to be trying to turn the conversation away from it. Why is that?

I'm about as powerful as a hotel hairdryer

As for rich...I wish!