Starmer, JKR, what's most important to most women 2?

[PupInAPram]

@pleasehelpwi3 said it best.

No but it did. People used to think it carried a risk! You are being so naive and ignorant of the past. We know now that gay men aren’t perverts and peados but they actually did think that. It was illegal, they used to be imprisoned!

We will be so embarrassed and ashamed of discussions like these one day.

@SergeantDawkins you haven’t said what it is you’d like to see

Do you want men in all female spaces and sports?

Sorry what? @SergeantDawkins

This was my post below to show YOU CAN’T TELL. I said I was CONFIDENT, not CERTAIN they were not predators. Because women have no way of telling or can be certain. And in a subsequent post confirmed why said potential predator brother shouldn’t be in any women’s spaces despite this fact that I am again, confident and not certain he poses no risk, as his presence might make other women uncomfortable.

The fact that this point went way over your head was the most embarrassing own goal and was exactly my point.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · Today 14:22
So you agree the issue is violent men. Not trans women.

How does one tell the difference? My partner, brother and late father to name a few I'm confident pose/d no threat to women. How do other women tell?

Does trying to present in a 'feminine way' automatically make them harmless?

Well, not specifically for women. For a lot of people.

I'd love to see the back of them, make no mistake.

I'm just appalled that there isn't a non misogynistic alternative.

Why the hell isn't Labour the party of women's rights?

What we will be ashamed of is that children were ever told you can be born in the wrong body and were ever put on puberty blockers. It is a medical scandal.

We will be so embarrassed and ashamed of discussions like these one day.

I will never be embarrassed and ashamed that I didn't fall over myself to believe in an odd religion based on sex stereotypes just because other people said I should.

But being male actually does pose a risk to women.

Are you suggesting that it doesn't?

They do say “not all transwomen” but you weren’t listening.

Im with eresh I have nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about

its a wee bit like that wrong side of history bollocks

Nobody wants to make being trans illegal. Some spaces, services and sports were developed specifically to be single-sex in order to protect women’s safety, privacy and dignity. Those things are all still needed. Transwomen should be able to safely use men’s facilities (why are men never told to be kind?) or campaign for third spaces. These things were designed as single-sex for a reason. People cannot change sex

I haven't started any threads. However I think I'm free to engage if I'd like to.

That’s not entirely true. Many women’s sports were set up because men wouldn’t allow women to play. It’s not to protect women, it’s to protect men’s egos.

Why are men never told to be kind? Great question. Why are women told to carry keys, cover their drinks, don’t walk alone. Because we refuse to deal with the real issue which is men’s attitudes to women. We are busy in-fighting instead. It’s easier to gloss over the societal problem of MEN and get angry at a minority group.

I'm male but happy to "go in pairs" to the (male) toilet like many women do, if that made any TW friends/colleagues I was with feel safer.

Well you do you. I couldn’t think of a more waste of my time popping up on threads to continually diminish women or reduce their experiences , or continually tell them ‘you’re wrong! And hate transpeople.

Because we refuse to deal with the real issue which is men’s attitudes to women.

Many of which are embodied in the "trans rights" movement's attitudes to women.

I’d like to see the issue dealt with a little nuance not just “ban trans women from everything”.

I’d like the men in power to address men’s attitudes and behaviour towards women. Including their own.

But transwomen are men. As soon as we cannot exclude transwomen from female spaces etc, we cannot exclude any men. This makes things worse for women

Uunderthinker what a great idea, thankyou!

And as for sports - most were designed to test the extreme of male ability, there aren’t many where women can genuinely compete with men

I have a different point of view to you. If you choose to interpret my posts as you've stated that doesn't mean I have no right to say that my priorities differ from yours. I'm sure you wouldn't want to silence women who disagree with you.

Transwomen are men.

Because we refuse to deal with the real issue which is men’s attitudes to women.

And nothing sums up mens attitude to women more then when they believe they can be us.

I’d like to see the issue dealt with a little nuance not just “ban trans women from everything”.

No one thinks they should be banned from everything, just things that are for women. All the nuance needed.

There is a chance I misunderstood your post before you went back to edit the typos.

Your point is that your brother shouldn’t be allowed in women’s spaces in case he is a predator?

@SergeantDawkins

Women's sports are not there to protect male egos, that is just total and utter tripe. Other than equestrianism, women generally lose out to men in mixed sex competition and single sex competitions are about fairness and female safety.

Almost no one actually thinks trans women are the same as biological women. It's thoroughly weird that you don't seem to believe in biological differences, or their significance, but you seem to believe in a magic woman feeling that all women share. My sex is just a fact about me - it's an important fact, but frankly it really isn't a feeling. If I only needed to say I identified as a man to access the benefits of maleness, such as being given more respect in meetings and a pay rise, I'd do it in a heartbeat and you could point to the fact that I hate shopping, would happily wear trousers or shorts for the rest of my life and like football and darts, as evidence of my "male essence". It's just regressive gender bollocks if it's not about material biological reality.

We'd all like male 'attitudes' towards women 'addressed'. What is equally important is that women's hard-won protections are not eroded by trans identified men who retain their male patterns of violence and sexual offending.