Starmer, JKR, what's most important to most women 2?

[PupInAPram]

@pleasehelpwi3 said it best.

OP if you are trying to convince people to vote Labour, then what I would say is that ignoring people's concerns and telling them they just shouldn't have them is not really a very effective technique.

Winning people over involves listening, first of all. And attempting to meet people honestly and sincerely, and making the arguments.

Give me one good reason why I should vote for a party which holds the female half of the population in complete contempt.

Based on what? Most of them have zero actual experience in government and have gone on record saying some really fucking stupid things.

I meant to say in the last thread, if Labour are elected we will have the first ever female chancellor. We will have a working class female deputy leader. Labour have the highest number of female candidates standing of any of the parties.

https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/candidate-selections-reflect-the-barriers-for-women-in-politics/

This is not a party that "hates women".

She's not doing either of those things.

Equally I'd say shouting down women amd insulting them isn't the way to win them to support your issue. In fact it's increasingly putting women off listening.

It won't matter to you, until it matters to you.

So nice to be in a situation that it doesn't matter to you.

Today 20:17
Ereshkigalang cleg · Today 20:06
You have no way of knowing whether your brother is a predator or a pervert actually.”

Ha! That’s the one thing I do know. He was both and I was 8.
As was my dad.
Neither were transmen.

Apologies to mrskylerwhite for bringing their post over but I could not let this one go.

Men can never be transmen so I don't know why you said neither your brother or dad were transmen, that's like asserting they weren't cats - its a given. Transmen are biologically women.

What are you prepared to accept op? Men in women's prisons, rape crisis centres, changing rooms? Boys and men in girls and women's sports? Women sacked for stating people can't change sex? It has all already happened in the UK. Lesbians are being told they are transphobic for stating they aren't interested in trans identified men. Gay children are being told they are in the wrong body which can be corrected with surgery. It's a dystopia which is already here and Labour are showing very little concern about it and will probably take actions which will make it worse. It doesn't just affect 0.1 per cent of the population. It affects us all.

I won't vote for anyone who has that viewpoint; no. Which makes it a very difficult election.

I am listening and I have not insulted anyone. I am just saying that through my job I see literally hundreds of women and girls and the concerns they discuss day to day are never about trans women. They are about difficulties getting gp appointments, or worrying about running out of money for food, or feeling unsupported with babies and toddlers. Trans women literally just don't come up in the list of top concerns of real women and girls I speak to.

Which makes it even worse. So many women choosing to pretend they don't know what a woman is, because otherwise they won't be the candidates of a party which supposedly should be better representation of women...

By doing that they are actively choosing to alienate women voters.

If the trans issue is literally 0.1%, why can't they just listen to the concerns of their potential voters , drop the trans ideology support for now and promise to not make it worse?

Who are you to tell women not to vote on a single issue if that single issue is vitally important to them?

Silencing women's voices by telling them not to vote. Now that really is disgraceful behaviour.

People should vote how they want, for whatever reason they want to even if it's something someone else considers completely trivial.

It's called democracy and it's not for people like you to try and snatch away

As arguments go, this is not a strong one. Isn't Labour the only political party in the UK never to have had a female leader?

And of course it goes without saying that women can be misogynists.

To the person on the previous thread who said “I know a lovely trans woman but…”
it’s just the modern version of “I don’t mind the gays but I wouldn’t want to work with one”.

But we are women on here, talking to you.

Are you referring to the Tories?

Seriously, how many points can over your head? It's the same as saying I know plenty of lovely men (and I do) but I realise that men as a sex class are more of a risk to women. Being gay doesn't carry the same risk. You are now just posting in bad faith.

No it isn't. Not at all.

Gay people never tried to gaslight everyone into pretending that white is black and up is down, nor did their fight for their own rights compromise anyone else's in any way.

I too know a couple of lovely trans woman.

But they are not women and I would not want to encounter them in a female changing room or a women's rape crisis group or competing in a women's sporting category. I'd quite happily chat to them in the pub or sit next to them at work.

You know I'm not referring to the Tories.

And there are women here who agree with the OP. Women can vote for whoever best addresses their concerns, whatever they may be.

I think, for me, the problem is more fundamental even than the issue of women's rights. It's the absolute lack of trust that the Labour front bench won't roll over for the next vocal minority that manages to gain a foothold as they did on this, I see that they are walking some of the crazy back on this issue, but how on earth did (do) so many of them find themself on this bandwagon in the first place?

Matthew Syed has it spot on in his piece in the Times today https://archive.ph/wX2sn

Does that mean I want the Tories in? Hell no! They have had 14 years to sort this out, but have chosen to keep it as a wedge issue for the election instead, so fuck them too, but Labour really aren't an easy party to put my confidence in either.

@DrNickedMaCorpus I'm talking about hundreds of women and girls I hear speak in real life and have first hand experience of. It's all we have that's real isn't it? People on the Internet aren't always representing their lived experience honestly, but this I know is real.

I whole heartedly agree.

A woman declared she's a victim of child sexual abuse from 2 family members and you're more interested in correcting what was obviously a mistake in her terminology about trans people. Even picking up her very personal and intimate post and dropping it into a new thread without her consent. Disgusting behaviour and you should get it deleted.

@mrsskylerwhite - I'm so sorry for what happened to you and that your post was picked out for point scoring.

Of course OP, one of the reasons this hasn’t been a problem for you is precisely because we haven’t had a left-wing administration for the last 5 years.

I don’t think the Tories have generally done a good job, but on this, they have been far better than the alternative - see Australia or Canada to get a better idea. Without the Tories In Westminster, the SNP would have pushed through self-id.

Once lost, I believe women’s rights will be very hard to win back. Once our young people go down the path of medical transition, it is impossible to reverse. Any child abused because this approach leaves safeguarding in tatters will have to deal with a lifetime of trauma.

People criticise MN for allowing discussion on this topic - but that is why posters here are so very well informed