Starmer, JKR, what's most important to most women 2?

[PupInAPram]

@pleasehelpwi3 said it best.

Yes, it's been so jarring.

Starmer's recent 'Tony Blair said it so well, but I won't speak to that awful Rosie Duffield when she said the exact same thing' was jawdropping.

Unfortunately the only conclusion I've been able to draw is that Labour have a deeply entrenched problem with misogyny.

Me too. My issue with JKR wading in is the timing. It seems calculated to harm Labour, if she wanted to put pressure on to change direction there are other ways to do it.

I don't agree on this point. I think she raised it at exactly the right time. To say nothing now would embolden them as they take power. I think she's highlighted the significant issues and prevented it from between swept under the carpet.

then GC feminists can keep the pressure on via the GRA consultation once Labour are in power

This, yes. 100 %

My issue with JKR wading in is the timing. It seems calculated to harm Labour, if she wanted to put pressure on to change direction there are other ways to do it.

She has been talking about this for a few years now while others have been trying to engage with the Labour party for even longer.

Labour ignored them and their concerns, so the timing is the fault of the party and is a direct result of them ignoring women. Women are sick of being told 'after the revolution love'

Starmer's recent 'Tony Blair said it so well, but I won't speak to that awful Rosie Duffield when she said the exact same thing' was jawdropping.

It really, really was

One assumes Keir is unable to hear the high pitched squeaking of women expressing their opinions, and needs old Tone to translate it into manspeak for him.

But they shouldn’t have to be forced to explain themselves or justify their request for same sex care

I agree with this. This can be dealt with by changing the rules around same sex care so its mandatory. My fear would be however that there aren't enough carers to enforce it (a bit like single sex wards in hospitals, where there were 44,000 breaches in a year due to resources)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mixed-sex-wards-breach-nhs-streeting-b2534608.html

There was no need to bring "self ID" and TW into the debate. By doing that, you make it seem as though intimate care from a TW is somehow worse than intimate care from a male carer. Let's fix the issue of same sex care being a legal requirement first (which is a real problem, happening today) before diving straight into scenarios about "Sarah the transwoman providing single sex care under self ID" which is hypothetical at this point.

Yep. Although Keir has been trying hard to block out women for over a year

I think many politicians/voters underestimate just how bloody angry women are. And how well-informed we are.

Whatever the election outcome, women will not back down: “Nothing about us without us!”

Of course he has. That’s why half his cabinet are women. 🙄

Yes clearly, that's why he's given the most senior shadow cabinet positions to women. And why Rayner/ Reeves/ Cooper/ Thornberry/ Phillipson are always out there stating Labour's position on various things.

That's why he made dealing with rape and getting rape victims heard one of his key priorities as DPP.

What a misogynist. 🙄

On the other hand, no problem with the Tories despite Sunak shouting aggressively at women daring to ask him questions at QT the other day and presiding over a cabinet of men, or the evidence from the covid enquiry.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/calm-takedown-of-johnsons-covid-downing-street-argues-sexist-culture-may-have-cost-lives-12998287

Breathtaking double standards, as always.

Cross Post 😂

I've never voted for any right wing party in my life and I'm not about to start now. However, I don't feel able to vote for Labour because I cannot trust them on this, and the Greens and Lib Dems are even worse. Which is frustrating, but I genuinely don't feel I can vote with any integrity for anyone who has gone all-in for this crap; it displays a lack of critical thinking of a level that I can't trust that they'll be capable of effectively addressing anything else or looking at facts.

I'll be voting this time for an independent in my area who happens to have been working very hard for their constituents where their focus is on local issues. Next time, we'll see. I suspect the tide will have turned big time on this by then. But it certainly won't be right wingers. I'm tired of being smeared by the perennially tribal and disingenuous who claim that any woman who doesn't agree is "far right" or motivated by beliefs she simply doesn't have. It's propaganda.

Ha he still can only here old Tony on this issue

He spent so long saying no one’s talking about it.

Posters disagreeing with you isn't a smear, or disingenuous. It's women exercising their own right to an opinion. HTH.

I'm unclear where your evidence is that she's "forgotten", given how many years she's spent donating money and talking about exactly these causes. You appear to have "forgotten" quite a bit yourself. How convenient for you.

It seems some of you are determined to demonise her whatever she does. Highly disingenuous. And once again, imbuing her with motivations she clearly doesn't have. You've been had.

As ever, some people’s comprehension skills are lacking 😬

So many women exercising the opinion that none of us should have certain rights or safeguarding because you don't care about them.

This is how we know this is not a human rights campaign.

Women can also be misogynists, don't forget.

I think this was perfect timing by JKR. Labour can't now say that they weren't aware that this is a huge issue post-election, or believe that everybody voting for them is giving them a green light to go gung ho on wrecking women's rights. It's good that they've seen the groundswell now. Hopefully it gives them pause for thought as to the strength of feeling.

The aim was to get Keir and co to think about what they're doing. Given the 'super majority' being predicted by some Labour supporters, I'm not sure why they're worried about the timing. After all, we're told on MN all the time (even within this thread) that barely anybody cares about it. If that's the case, what does it matter what JKR said? Or are people worried that actually it is a huge concern for many, and it could influence the result? It can't be both!

If you're claiming women who aren't "right wing" are right wing, then yes, you are smearing and yes, it is disingenuous. It has been a common tactic among transactivists, that those of us who've been paying attention have been seeing for YEARS now.

Sorry, but this isn't about you "disagreeing". This is about you actively claiming other people have motivations and beliefs and political affiliations they simply don't have. It's a deliberate smear, and it's based on ignorance. You don't get to rewrite people's history for them and make untrue claims about their affiliations. It's propagandist. Which I'm sure you know really, but please, do carry on telling women who disagree with YOU that they have beliefs they don't.

HTH too, by the way.

Yes it’s great timing, she got the headlines too

And agree of course women can be anti women’s sex based rights, some Labour MPs included but generally

I'm worried that it will be like Brexit and Labour won't get a majority, yes. Because either we will end up with a left coalition and then there really will be a threat from self ID.
Or we will end up with more Tories which will fuck us all over.

I think all the talk about "super majorities" has made JKR complacent about the potential consequences of her intervention. Hopefully I'm wrong.

There was no need to bring "self ID" and TW into the debate. By doing that, you make it seem as though intimate care from a TW is somehow worse than intimate care from a male carer. Let's fix the issue of same sex care being a legal requirement first (which is a real problem, happening today) before diving straight into scenarios about "Sarah the transwoman providing single sex care under self ID" which is hypothetical at this point

@CassieMaddox There is absolutely a need to bring self id and TW into the debate about intimate care because the women who rely on help for their intimate care are being gaslighted and abused because they’re putting men and trans women into the same category; male.

Have a look at this thread from last year, discussing an NHS report that appeared in the telegraph. Read that and tell me if you still can’t see what the issue is. https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4823723-telegraph-patients-may-be-guilty-of-discrimination-if-they-refuse-care-of-transgender-medic-nhs-bosses-told#:~:text=The%2520report%2520goes%2520on%2520to,may%2520result%2520to%2520the%2520patient.%E2%80%9D

Why are you shouting at me?
The only people I claim are right wing are people doing and saying right wing things. Actions speak louder than words. And it's usually about GC activists, not posters on here.

it's based on ignorance. You don't get to rewrite people's history for them and make untrue claims about their affiliations. It's propagandist.

This is more of a smear and attack than anything Ive written. I'm as entitled to my opinion as anyone else. If that makes you angry or defensive, that's a you problem.

I've never voted for any right wing party in my life and I'm not about to start now. However, I don't feel able to vote for Labour because I cannot trust them on this, and the Greens and Lib Dems are even worse. Which is frustrating, but I genuinely don't feel I can vote with any integrity for anyone who has gone all-in for this crap; it displays a lack of critical thinking of a level that I can't trust that they'll be capable of effectively addressing anything else or looking at facts.

Exactly this.

Do you have a link to the actual report?