Starmer, JKR, what's most important to most women 2?

[PupInAPram]

@pleasehelpwi3 said it best.

Two people with similar aims are saying it

Neither are backing it up.

This was my process:

I cannot vote Labour. The misogyny is very clear. I have not been fighting for women’s right to call themselves women and for the basic reality of biology to be acknowledged only to throw it away again.

I looked at all the other parties and eliminated Greens and LD for basically the same as above.

I eliminated Reform because I simply do not think they have a viable and capable plan of running the country.

There is an independent running in my constituency and I have no idea what they stand for, so I can’t vote for them.

That leaves Conservative. I’ve voted for them before and I am happy to do so again. Overall, I believe Labour and Conservative are very similar on numerous issues. I tend to find most people don’t want to vote Tories for intangible reasons and ‘feelings’ over logic. That’s their choice.

For me this election comes down to something simple: do I want Labour in? No. The only vote that makes sense to stop that is Conservative. Voting for any of the outliers is simply allowing Labour in.

Labelling women’s rights as a right wing issue is ridiculous.

As JK Rowling wryly comments: “why do women feel solidarity with each other on women's rights even when they disagree on other stuff? Why can't they stay in their tribes with their menfolk, who'll get round to women's rights once they've dealt with all the far more important things they've got to do?”

Answers on a postcard etc…

Practically every reform voter will be gender critical. They will also almost all believe the world is round and the sky is blue. The number of people who actually believe in gendered souls and that sex is not biological or is linked to ironing are infinitesimally small. Not everyone who is GC (instinctively or consciously) will vote reform, obviously, or they would win every seat that they have managed to scrape up a candidate for and who will not have been suspended by July 4th.

It’s not the fault of reform or conservative that Labour have deliberately, over YEARS slagged off women who have said even a very mild word about women’s rights. It is labour who has called women “toxic”, not reform. It is labour who has called women “rights hoarding dinosaurs”, not reform. It is labour who have said women saying very basic things about human anatomy that they are “very wrong” and those things “shouldn’t be said”. If you want to blame someone for making women’s rights an issue then blame Kier Starmer, blame Jeremy Corbyn, blame Owen Jones. They could have stopped this years ago but they chose to stand in the middle of Parliament Square with a bucket of bullshit and a whisk.

I haven’t decided yet, but I will 100% not be voting reform and I am as GC as they come. I dont know any GC women who have switched to reform and haven’t seen anyone on Twitter who has said such (but Twitter is a cess pit of bots and trolls so not sure it matters either way) I don’t think women will be better off under reform because their other policies are shit and, as a party, they are racist. Knowing what a woman is isn’t enough, you have to not be misogynistic and you have to be able to govern effectively. Reform as a whole fail on points 2 and 3, labour (and green and LibDem) on 1 & 2 (jury is out on 3) and conservatives on all 3. But it’s all GC fault for knowing sex is real. And people patronisingly ruminate about why we care.

@ConservationLie wouldn't vote Reform if you paid me . I'm an Ex Lab member of many years. I am desperate to vote for them but I feel women have been treated with contempt by the Labour Party on the issue and can't vote for them. They will win and don't need my vote but I am horrified that we could consider giving away our rights. Oh and I am one of those disabled ,poor women who struggling to pay rent and pay my bills by the way every month. I also worry about becoming homeless and ending up in a hostel with a self Id ing trans woman with my daughter . I shouldn't have to be in the situation where I am concerned about exposing my daughter to a male that she doesn't know but with Self Id that is the kinda things that will affect poor women. But hey, privileged eh?

Also, I think if enough women heed JKR’s warning, we can keep Labour out. We hold enough of the vote. Unfortunately, I think enough will go ahead and vote Labour.

I think there’s plenty of evidence that men will go to extremes to access vulnerable women. However, that is not the point.

Are women who want single-sex care bigots? Yes, or no?

It’s a bit I’ll try to push a line if you say you don’t accept it I’ll report you

Not the best method

😂 What’s the weather like on your planet?

So women who are vulnerable and marginalised are ignored, wealthy women don't deserve to be listened to, and none of us deserve rights.

But not one of you has been able to give a compelling argument why.

No. And I don't think anyone on here are saying they are that's a very strange tangent to go off on.

I think the thread was about whether it's unreasonable to vote Labour because they will do more for women's rights in the round.

As always a small handful of posters have turned up to shout at Labour voters and try to misquote us and smear us.

It's ridiculous and the opposite of "listening to women".

It’s been a theme throughout these threads, so it’s hardly a tangent.

Thank you for confirming that wanting single sex care isn’t bigotry.

And are women who do not want intimate care by a transwoman bigots?

edited for bad typing.

I’m a Labour voter, and will be voting for them this time too. I also agree with JKR, and I do not believe transwomen are women.

What I don't get is why can't Labour tackle issues with public services poverty etc and uphold women's rights, single sex spaces, etc, they aren't mutually exclusive.

While I am hugely grateful for JKR speaking up, why wouldn't Labour listen to ordinary women. An 18 year old male socially transitions and gets involved with Labour student politics, and Labour MPs were hanging off every word. Female Labour supporters and decades long activists were ignored and in some cases stripped of roles in the party. Why did we need someone with JKRs clout just to be heard?

I am in this position - I think JKR has forgotten she was once a single mum relying on the welfare state, and is coming from a place of privilege.

For so many women there are much bigger things that we need to survive day to day. Feeding the kids. New school shoes. The bills.

Labour are better for us, we have had 14 years of being mistreated. Any woman voting for the Tory party are not voting for all women. None of the parties can tell you what a woman is, but some treat them much worse.

JKR has set up several charities and one of them is to support families less well off than her, so where do you get off spreading such garbage?

Why aren't you listening to the women using domestic abuse shelters, rape crisis support, women in prison, women in psychiatric wards, disabled women who want single sex carers for intimate care?

Why are political parties saying 'we'll deal with this issue but you have to accept this policy in return?'

If they would accept care from a man, but not a trans woman, then that is their prejudice.

I don't use the word bigot, it is inflammatory and to me has become a codeword from the right to try to identify and discredit people on the left.

I’ve said this before, but I’ll repeat myself. I’ll even write it in bold, so that it stands out for you. I am not equating trans women carers (or trans women in any other profession, come to that) with predators or abusers or criminals of any type, shape or form. Nobody is suggesting that trans women go into the care industry in order to seek out vulnerable people to abuse. I quite agree with you that it would be scaremongering. That’s why I’m not suggesting it, or even thinking it.

I’ve done care work. I know first hand how bloody hard work it is and how shit the pay and conditions are. I also know that a lot of people who depend on carers are already handing over so much of their dignity already. The point that I’m making is that some of them don’t want men involved in their intimate care. Not because they fear being abused but because they are a different sex. And that might be a problem for them for a million different reasons, or they may not have a reason at all. But they shouldn’t have to be forced to explain themselves or justify their request for same sex care.

Which is great, she can. It still doesn't help the thousands of women like me who are struggling to survive under a Tory government .

JKR is one of the few women that can get use what politicians care about to get the point across - money

I’m pleased that she uses her success for this. Tg we have her highlighting it

Not that Labour are good at listening to any women but a £1m donation is no small change

@Pieceofpurplesky
Why aren't you listening to the women using domestic abuse shelters, rape crisis support, women in prison, women in psychiatric wards, disabled women who want single sex carers for intimate care?

Why are women being told we'll have to accept losing our rights to get the other problems fiixed?

Sorry / pressed send to soon. I agree with your points BUT for some women there are bigger problems. The two sides are not exclusive but for some women feeding their kids is more important. Surely you understand that?

Me too. My issue with JKR wading in is the timing. It seems calculated to harm Labour, if she wanted to put pressure on to change direction there are other ways to do it.

I believe any government involving the Tories or Reform will be far more damaging than Labour.

A left wing coalition is also likely to be bad news because the libs and greens are pro self ID.

My opinion is a Labour majority with the current policy is the best option t9 benefit women and then GC feminists can keep the pressure on via the GRA consultation once Labour are in power.

In fairness, not even JKR is cutting through fully.

It wasn't until his mate Tony got involved that Starmer conceded that women's biology has relevance.