to be cross my ds has measles because other parents didn't vaccinate their children

[snickersnack]

He's 11 months old, poor little thing . Fortunately he's going to be ok - he got off quite lightly, I think - but it was scary and he was really poorly for a day or so. Spent 10 hours in A&E yesterday while he had chest x-rays, blood tests, IV fluids etc. Now we're just waiting to see if his sister,who's 2, gets it - she's had one dose of MMR already so fingers crossed she's immune.

We live in an area where immunisation rates are among the lowest in the country. Now I have to go and tell all parents of the other babies he's met recently that their children might be at risk as well...

Good article by Hornby. We have evidence now though.

honestly, just have read again this thread, and obviously there is now a lot of negativity, but honestly, there are more children coming out good as there isn't...and to me, consdirering the dangers of the deseases. there is now most likely to come more good out of vaccinating then bad.....because, tbh, there isn't that much you can do once a Kid contracts whatever desease, they can be sterile, they could cause other children to be born death blind....and all sorts.....
What I wish for is, that test would be done that could identify people that are better of without the vaccine, which, then would make the group of unvaccinated individuals smaller....

'each parent makes a choice about vaccination'
This is a public health issue - you don't have a choice as your behavior affects other people -

like smoking and passive smoking -
or flytipping or polluting the waterways. It's a public health issue - not a private health choice.

YANBU. I hope your family is OK - I hope the other kids with measles are OK also

You know, everyone I know who didn't vaccinate their first child, cos they thought they'd be OK to 'opt-out', because they had such and such an attribute, (healthy, wealthy, middle class, educated or some other such baloney), vaccinated their subsequent children. Their own little kids being in danger and very ill in hospital opened their eyes to their irresponsible behavior and it's catastrophic effect on innocent lives.

Vaccinations are a public health issue. Not a private choice.

I don't think that anyone read my last link which showed that a US court has granted compensation for vaccine related autism in a secret ruling. This supports Wakefield and will no doubt open floodgates with other cases. this page. I googled it to make sure she was correct and she is.

I was very much with zazen that it was a public health issue and not a private choice but I am no longer so sure if you read this page and scroll down to Vaccine awareness by Joanna Karpasea Jones and further down to Thursday 30th August 2007.

Abbey- that case has been mentioned earlier in the thread. I think the person writing it is mixing MMR and thimerosal (MMR doesn't contain thimerosal). There was some discussion about mitochondrial disorders earlier in the thread. Important I think to establish how many with autism might have mitochondrial disorders and also how they might present.

zazen- everyone I know in RL who hasn't vaccinated a child (and I know a lot) has reached that decision following some sort of adverse reaction to vaccination in an older child. In some cases a catastrophic adverse reaction. No-one is going to merrily jab away after that. People who vaccinate do not do it thinking it will cause their child harm. They go into it thinking it has the potential to cause harm but that it's not very likely to happen to their child (was certainly how I felt with ds1). They do it because their fear of the diseases is greater than their fear of vaccination. If you see your child regress following vaccinations you tend to find that your fear of vaccination increases dramatically. It's not some lifestyle choice.

(and yes yes I know that diseases can be nasty - search on my name for yesterday- ds1 goes to school with children left damaged by diseases - as well as vaccinations- as well as crappy births as well as unfortunate genetics - no-one is immune from disability).

Unfortunately when you get left with a vaccine damaged child - and I know 3 people with very, very clear, hard to think it could be anything else links. (as well as many others I know less well) It no longer becomes a public health issue. You are well and truly on your own Jack.

following on from the cjd issue in OPV, that article said that now all bovine material has to come from abroad for vaccines. However i recently found out that the oral Vit K given at birth contains material from bovine gall bladder, and when i rang Roche to ask where they source their bovine material they couldn't tell me. Just about to have another baby so would be nice if they actually knew.

KM- the polio is now given as IPV in with the DTaP and hib. So given three times.

The States has used IPV for a lot longer than the UK.

Good point Yurt about how it suddenly stops being a public health issue once your child is affected. Very very good point. Whither social responsibility then?

Am posting and running, but thank you for the posts on polio, which I am so happy to be able to follow up.

I don't actually know much about it, all my DSs have been vaccinated without problems and I was very much in favour, agreeing totally with zazen but I am no longer so sure.

Having said that I must just post again: the mothers who raise these issues are demostrating exemplary social responsibility by alerting others to the problems and doing so much research in the middle of their own very difficult issues.

Beachcomber- the BBC reporting of the whole MMR/GMC thing has been utterly incorrect and full of errors right from the beginning. I thought it was interesting that the reporter said they were short of time and couldn't cover it properly. That was obvious. I think they must be getting all their information from press briefings from Brian Deer.

I have had some dealings with dept of health and NHS ethics over the last few weeks. Simple, straightforward questions. Impossible to get a straight answer - even from people right at the top responsible for drawing up the rules. I'm sure there'll be something technical they can get him on. It would be political suicide for them not to. It does appear to have been a very badly thought out decision to bring him to the GMC though.

Having said all that the GMC panel did clear Dr Jayne Donegan who acted as an expert witness in that case where the fathers wanted their kids to have MMR and the mother's didn't. She was accused of using 'junk science' but was then cleared by the GMC of all charges. Weirdly this wasn't widely reported

And if you want a really strange story type Lisa Blakemore Brown into google. She got herself in a very awkward position by commenting on/writing about MMR and MSBP. Reading the Lisa Blakemore Brown stuff could have you scratching your head for ever more.

Message withdrawn

Jayne Donegan's experience at the GMC, Worth reading the panel findings link which as well clearing her of all charges.

ostrich, head and sand spring to mind. This public health angle irks me tbh. What parent would put the needs of other children over the needs of their own? I care about public health and I am a health professional. However, I am also a mother and my son is precious to me. He has family history of auto-immune disease in addition to two other factors which possibly compromise his immune system. It is on this basis that I choose (yes choose) to limit his exposure to a combined vaccination which may increase his risk of an adverse reaction. He will have the single measles vaccine instead (when he doesn't have a cold/cough).

"What we need to do is support the tiny minority that do suffer as a result of these adverse reactions"

This is sacrificing the unlucky few for 'common good'. I don't agree with it.

What we really need to do is find out which tiny minority is at risk so that we don't give them the MMR. That way, the common good will be served and we will not have sacrificed these kids and their families, however few.

Supporting them after the damage is done is just not a good enough strategy, imho.

They're not supported anyway. They're told they're imagining it.

"Vaccinations are a public health issue. Not a private choice."

Are you for real? Of course we have a choice. MMR is optional.

Herd immunity might be for the common good, but herd mentality is not.

Exactly.

Ahh yes.
I am one of the tiny minority. Lucky old me
DS regressed very quickly after his MMR at 18 months - lost all gained skills and would be best described as severe end of ASD spectrum.

If anyone thinks that jabbing my DD would be a good decision for her, me or the general public then I would really vbe interested. Especially as her GP and Paed both told me privately that we should opt out.

Whilst i have sadly accepted that some numbnuts just view my DS's problems as the price worth paying to avoid their child getting measles - i really could live without being lectutred about social responsibility.
Those people always seem to be really puritanical about my responsibility for the health of their child yet I rarely get calls offering to help with the 24 hour care my son needs.
funny eh?
Seems the responsibilities are viewed as a one way deal.

( ruty - I am doing deep breathing and going to my happy place. So blood pressure is still ok - so far)

I can't believe you got kicked off the fluffy ticker site Kerrymum

Kerrymum this is playing on my mind so much, the way people scarper from debate as soon as it gets sticky for them, it was drilling through my brain at the supermarket and lo and behold, I come back and you've said it for me.

Pagwatch, I agree and sympathise a thousand times over -- sodding scarperers, they run away from the consequences and they can't even face reading about it.

Could the single MMR jabd people please come over here and tell me what you think about my dilemma on the booster for 5 year old DD.