to be cross my ds has measles because other parents didn't vaccinate their children

[snickersnack]

He's 11 months old, poor little thing . Fortunately he's going to be ok - he got off quite lightly, I think - but it was scary and he was really poorly for a day or so. Spent 10 hours in A&E yesterday while he had chest x-rays, blood tests, IV fluids etc. Now we're just waiting to see if his sister,who's 2, gets it - she's had one dose of MMR already so fingers crossed she's immune.

We live in an area where immunisation rates are among the lowest in the country. Now I have to go and tell all parents of the other babies he's met recently that their children might be at risk as well...

This is why we need research done that we can all trust..independant research..nothing to do with drug companies or anyone that has an interest money wise. I'm not saying that there isnt a link, i'm saying i've not seen enough proof that can be trusted.
I just didnt want the same fate for my kids as what happened to my sister..so i went with the MMR, had i have been able to afford to pay for single jabs i may have done..but there was no other option for me.

miss mattie i think that was aimed at me!

Hi Mrs M

Bitcat said "misinformed".

Well you come up with an explanation then, for why the research is not only not being done but actively being discouraged.

I bet you can't .. but if you can I will buy you a waffle.

I must go now but I'm stuck on "threads I'm on" so there's no escaping what you find!

Sorry, ignorant hearsay was too strong a phrase I retract it. MrsMattie has expressed my opinion much better than me and more tactfully . I too have read extensively on this subject and as a result have come to the conclusion there is no proven link between autism and mmr. I have seen the devastating effects of measles and believe people do not understand the seriousness of this disease and dismiss it as being something like chicken pox.
Hats off to those of you who have also researched it and come to the opposite conclusion. I respect your right to think differently to me. But I hear so many mothers who haven't say vague things like "ooh, apparently mmr is bad I'm not going to let dd have it" and that vagueness is infuriating and just as much fuelled by inaccurate reporting as the other POV.

Perhaps they dont want to spend the money on the research! Very wrong..money should come second when playing with the lives of children.
Perhaps there really isnt a link between the 2, and as such would be a massive waste of money, which would be better spent somewhere else. Either way they should show parents that they are willing to put parents at ease and show some proper evidence that there isnt a link..stick their necks out so to speak!

but the point is, to mrs mattie and mrs shackleton, that nobody wants to leave theri child or anyone else's at risk of measles. I was hospitalized with measles as i already mentioned. the point is there is very possibly a small subset of children out there at risk of substantial damage by the MMR [not revealed in large statistical studies] and Wakefield's research is not going to be followed up because of the ruin of his character and career. Horton, editor of the Lancet, praised his original paper [i'm having to repeat myself now ] as a sound and valid piece of research. It needed following up and that's not happening. Of course measles can be a dangerous disease. And MMR may well be equally dangerous to some. Neither scenario is a good one, and more honesty and rigourous investigation into the whole situation is required for the safety of all our children.

Would you believe a government funded report that says the MMR is safe and has no links to autism?

I dont think we should be getting angry at people who choose not to vaccinate...its the stupid idiots at government..who have taken away a parents rights to choose how and what vaccines their children have.
I think everyone would agree that parenting is a hard enough job without being faced with decisions like these that can change our childrens lives completely. And i dont think anyone here would disagree that single jabs should be made available to those who want them and parents should be given that right to choose..not to be told you have the MMR or nothing. We cant help how we feel and if any parents have doubts about the MMR, then single jabs should be offered. Its the government and the medical proffession we should be angry with not other parents who are only trying to do what they think is right, trying to protect their children as we all want to.

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I would like to see all the data for the research and be sure that it was independent of anybody that would make money from the vaccines.
I really believe that if they new it wasnt safe that it would be withdrawn, because it will come out eventually.
I would like to know how many cases were looked at, who had what when? How long after MMR and any other factors such as family history and other medical problems that they may have had!
There are many other theories regarding Autism..which also need to be researched.

I think ruty has summed it all up very nicely.

But I just wanted to take issue with what macdoodle said on the previous page:

Quote "I grew up in a 3rd world country ... and by far one of the biggest cause of death and damage (other than HIV and malnutrition) are preventable diseases which we do not suffer from (yes because of vaccines and our better nutrition and living conditions)....but to see children struggling and dying because of TB, polio, whooping cough, AND YES measles."

Hmmm. I'm just going to step away from the label she used '3rd world country' (that could be a discussion for another thread), to say that I grew up in what we in the UK like to call a 'developing' country, in a small village in the Himalayan mountains where my parents ran medical projects such as mobile clinics to remote villages, literacy programmes for women, etc... The area they served included 100,000 villages all of which had no access to medical care. In the 18 years I was there, we rarely saw cases of measels, polio or the other diseases people are worried about here. The biggest killer, particularly of infants and children, was dehydration due to dysentry contracted from unhygenic living conditions.

It is interesting that in that country too, there is a massive drive for vaccination programmes, but almost nothing is done to address the number one killer I mentioned above. So I think anyone who claims that large sums of money are not involved in inventing and provinding vaccinations or do not act as ANY kind of incentive to pharmaceutical companies/governments/health-care providers are being wildly disingenuine. And with such a huge factor 'muddying the waters', as it were, we should all be very suspicious about what we are told to believe.

Polio is a hard one because it is still live in babies poo..i was advised to be very careful changing nappies when i was pregnant for this reason! Rather scary thought but its true.

I thought you only had to be careful of polio in babies poo after they had been given the vaccine. It's not there otherwise.

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thats what i meant 2girls..didnt type that one too well..not very clear..,sorry.

The current polio vaccination is not live so you are now safe changing nappies! It was the old oral one that could potentially still cause polio.

I was working with babies at the time..and still had a lo in nappies.

I'd be interested to know what people on here would count as unbiased research. Obviously you would not accept drug company funded research but if you also exclude government funding and would also have to refuse funding from Autism support groups and other groups with a possible interest in the outcome, who could fund the research and frankly, why would they want to?

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oh i see fleximum..see i'm getting old now!! So much has changed.

I think the government and the WHO has a massive interest in saying that the MMR is safe, as well as the drug companies.
And unless there is an extremely wealthy person with no links to either who would be willing to fund any research, I don't think we will ever know the truth about MMR.

Maybe we should get someone like Richard Branson to fund it! or i could find a rich sugar daddy to do it for me.

What sort of research are you looking for? There are many different studies into the MMR done in various countries all concluding it is a safe vaccine. What sort of interest has the WHO in the MMR?

yes they changed the polio vaccine in Europe around 3 years ago to IPV, inactive not live virus. unfortunately most 'developing' countries still get the OPV, ostensibly because it is more effective, but I wonder if it is more due to cost, especially as OPV has a very real risk of causing real polio [especially in an immuno compromised child or one with poor nutrition].

Very disheartening PhDiva about the dystentery not being addressed.
I always wonder why Nestle has been allowed to go on for so many years bribing doctors and funding advertisements for formula milk that I'm afraid does kill hundreds of babies in developing countries, due to dirty water and the fact that breast milk does protect against many diarrhoea type illnesses. Children die as a direct result and no one seems to bat an eyelid.