to be cross my ds has measles because other parents didn't vaccinate their children

[snickersnack]

He's 11 months old, poor little thing . Fortunately he's going to be ok - he got off quite lightly, I think - but it was scary and he was really poorly for a day or so. Spent 10 hours in A&E yesterday while he had chest x-rays, blood tests, IV fluids etc. Now we're just waiting to see if his sister,who's 2, gets it - she's had one dose of MMR already so fingers crossed she's immune.

We live in an area where immunisation rates are among the lowest in the country. Now I have to go and tell all parents of the other babies he's met recently that their children might be at risk as well...

HI MO, I can see it reads like a conspiracy theory, I'll rewrite it.

It's difficult to understand why the research isn't carried out, when the money and willing volunteers are available. One possibility arises from the fact that the pharmaceutical manufacturers and governments are so very vulnerable to the catastrophic litigation costs which would ensue were it to be revealed to the public that adverse effects are much more serious and less rare than they claim. Because of this, they are reluctant in the extreme to fund and carry out the research that is needed.

MO what is your theory about why the research is not being carried out ?

yes

This makes me a bit cross a vaccine is like any other medication it costs to develope and produce and it DOES have side effects ...but to suggest some huge cover up is absurd..
I grew up in a 3rd world country (and trained there) and by far one of the biggest cause of death and damage (other than HIV and malnutrition) are preventable diseases which we do not suffer from (yes because of vaccines and our better nutrition and living conditions)....but to see children struggling and dying because of TB, polio, whooping cough, AND YES measles is terribly sad ..when we take it so much for granted and in fact chuck the chance to protect our children away....(yes our children are in better health and better able to protect themselves generally but do we really want to re-introduce preventable diseases that can kill and maim)......
Sould we get rid of all vaccines and all treatments because they have side effects (I include antibiotics, heart medication, asthma drugs etc etc the list is never ending nothing is without risk)..
This whole debate makes me terribly sad and I always swear to avoid them when they surface on MN because they are not based on scientific evidence (anecdotes and small badly run trials are NOT evidence - an association is not causation, and side effects are unavoidable)...
I feel terribly sad for those children with autism and their parents and carers but really the case cannot be proved (yes I know it cannot be disproved but the same goes for many many many other medical treatments)....and I understand the need to aportion blame but IMHO (and I agree it is mine) it is misplaced in this case

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Have not read the whole thread but no YANBU AT ALL and I am very, very sorry about your ds and relieved he will be OK
Measles is a very dangerous disease. In the course of my work I have come across several children with terrible brain damage as a result of catching it
There is no proven link between the MMR and autism, there is a proven link that measles can kill and do other terrible damage, If people saw how families' lives have been shattered by bringing up these mentally and physically disabled children they might think far, far more carefully about their choices rather than listening to ignorant hearsay

well then maybe you'd like to read the whole thread mrs shackleton before labelling those who don't vaccinate with MMR as listening to 'ignorant hearsay'. Talk about banging one's head on a brick wall...

Wow, can't believe I missed this huge thread. to the OP - I don't think you are being unreasonable. I don't get angry with parents who choose not to vaccinate - parents can get worked up into a frenzy of fear about their babies very easily, and that's understandable. But having travelled extensively in the developing world and seen for myself that 'common childhood illnesses' severely damage and kill children who aren't privileged enough to have been offered vaccination, I do think that choosing not to vaccinate is incredibly misguided. I can't imagine not choosing to vaccinate, especially in light of the flimsy and largely discredited 'evidence' re: the autism link.

they might think far, far more carefully about their choices

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Oh, ffs.

Macdoodle brings up banning all vaccines again and I've noticed that the only ones that say that are Pro Vaccine. None of us with doubts have suggested any such thing.

As for Mrsshackleton walking in, reading nothing and making pronoucements, what can you do but laugh?

Sadly we often hear phrases like this.

I know GS: until it happens to them, not that one would wish it. There is a world beyond one's own personal direct experience but it takes so much time and effort to engage with it.

Pitchounette - Are you French or living in France? DD's paediatrician (in France) didn't even know that there were concerns about MMR.

In the end, DD had measles single vaccine. Single mumps and rubella vaccines are not available in France, but paed said they weren't such a big deal, and if DD didn't have rubella until she was a teenager, she should get a vaccine before she even thinks about getting pregnant.

Mmes mattie & shackleton - You are right. All of us who have refused MMR for our little ones are ignorant fools who haven't bothered to read up on this vaccine, let alone given it a moment's thought. As is so blindingly obvious to anyone who reads through this thread.

Unbelievable.

Greyriverside, mps sending their children to private school probably because they would get a lot of taunts and bullying at a state school simply because of who there parents are, nothing to do with state schools being crap..a lot of them are as good as a private one.
And actually it is nobodies business as to what medical treatments, vaccines his kids have, those are his children and he has every right to keep it private.
I not his biggest fan but you wouldnt like your childrens every vaccines, or medical problems all over the tv, he is as someone has said a man with a family...and just trying to protect his children.

bitcat -- but he likes to make us do the same thing to our children, so I think we have that right ..

Bitcat I don't blame him one bit for his choices, but they reveal what he thinks IS the best choice.

I'd have done exactly the same. You and I agree then that people should do their best for their own kids no matter what

There is absolutely no need for you to be so hostile in your response@Cote D'Azur. Re-read my post. I said no such thing. Like you (I presume?) I read widely on the topic before I decided to have my son vaccinated. I said I sympathise with parents who choose not to vaccinate but I do believe they are misguided. Don't jump down my throat when I have expressed a perfectly reasonable opinion without attacking anyone.

Shackleton and mattie, i do agree somewhat with what you are both saying and i have had all 4 of mine vaccinated and have all had the MMR. This is because i have seen the full extent of measles at its worse..but i do believe that in order to put parents minds a ease and bring an end to the MMR debate that the government should research these claims properly and reinstate the single vaccines until it can be resolved, otherwise we are putting childrens lives at risk and allowing horrible illnessess to creep back in.

Mrs Mattie I think it is frustrating when you say things like 'flimsy and largely discredited evidence'. I can understand why you think this way, many people do, but if you had read the thread, particularly comments on the government's own study post Wakefield, the Cochrane Report, you may see why people get frustrated at this kind of media fuelled and not very accurate opinion. There are many threads here on MMR and many times the research has been debated and investigated. No point really in repeating it all again, but the information is there, and on this thread too, if you want to read it.

can somebody point me in the direction of the stats/research that proves measles was erradicated by the vaccination programme rather than the cases just reducing over years due to better nutrition,hygeine etc?

my dd2 almost died from a chilhood illness that there is no vaccine for,nor have i read that ne is being looked into.i really dont understand vaccinations anymore,when i started looking into them it was because i wanted to tell myself that ds2's problems were unrelated to the MMR,so i would be happy for dd2 to have it,but all the reading i have done has made me think that NO vaccinations are safe

We dont know his family circumstances and we dont know whether his son had any medical problems that meant he couldnt or shouldnt have the MMR.
I dont really believe that he or anyone else would be sinister enough to knowingly put children in any danger..we are all humans and most people wouldnt allow such a vaccine if it was so dangerous..if there is a link.. then they have been misinformed and as i said more research is needed and they should investigate.

I have read enough to be satisfied that there is no link between autism and the MMR jab and that's it, really@ruty. No offence - we have different opinions. I wasn't rude to anyone and I can understand that it's frustrating when others completely disagree with your opinion, but hey, that's MN.

My sister is a healthcare professional and had a some great stuff about how vaccination in the western world has almost eradicated many common childhood illnesses@Diva -I will try to dig it out.

Misinformed? By who? Who do health officials go to for their expert advice? They go to the vaccine experts. Who are they? They develop and research vaccines. Who for? Pharmaceutical companies. Their prime objective? a. altruism b. profit.

Take your choice.

It's been shown that American pharmaceutical companies spend twice as much on marketing as they do on research and development.

I dont think that you can really say that any vaccination is 100% safe, certainly not for all children..its unfortunate but its true..that we dont find out that a particular child is going to react badly until its too late.
The alternative is not a good one..if we didnt give any vaccines then, i think we would see a lot more deaths from childhood illnessess.
If the vaccines dont work, then why is it that measles wasnt heard of much until the MMR debate kicked off and some parents were frightened to let their children have the vaccine and now we are getting outbreaks! So i think the vaccine is doing its job..as to whether there is a link to Autism i dont know?...im not sure anyone does but they certainly need to study and research much more.

So vaccination to prevent childhood illness is all just a big drugs company scam?@stuffitlama

I don't believe that, I'm sorry.

And I said 'misguided' not 'misinformed'.