to be cross my ds has measles because other parents didn't vaccinate their children

[snickersnack]

He's 11 months old, poor little thing . Fortunately he's going to be ok - he got off quite lightly, I think - but it was scary and he was really poorly for a day or so. Spent 10 hours in A&E yesterday while he had chest x-rays, blood tests, IV fluids etc. Now we're just waiting to see if his sister,who's 2, gets it - she's had one dose of MMR already so fingers crossed she's immune.

We live in an area where immunisation rates are among the lowest in the country. Now I have to go and tell all parents of the other babies he's met recently that their children might be at risk as well...

One that will once and for all put this whole MMR debate to bed...not 100% nothing can be but something that will allow parents to feel comfortable above what vaccines they give their children..because atm, so much conflicting reports that parents dont know which way to go and this government seems to be trying to brush it under the carpet and parents are scared, it needs to be dealt with or scrapped and single jabs available.

Haven't read whole thread - stopped at about p12!!
I completely understand why some people don't want to immunise their children and I don't think they take thta risk lightly.
I think the press are more to blame than the medical researchers such as Wakefield for their (often) hysterical reporting of scientific research. This is surely also undermining informed choice. For example the recent research on homebirths.
Also, FWIW, DS has a slight temperature on the day he was due to get MMR so I canceled. He went on to develop a strange rash, a massive temperature and lots of screaming that the doctor couldn't identify. I'm sure that if he had had the MMR I would have blamed it but obviously he didn't. Sometimes, it is possible to be just a coincidence

Off to wake up the little darling

What conflicting advice is that bitcat? Are there many studies showing the MMR is non-safe?

of course WHO have an active interest in proving MMR is safe - they act in the interest of public health. Measles can kill, especially in countries where access to medical care and optimum nutrition is limited, and pulling MMR would be a costing an organisational nightmare. so far there is only one, tiny study [with flaws] to suggest MMR may cause problems to a small set of children. Statistical studies are useless in pinpointing a cause like MMR which may be responsible for something like 7% of all autism cases, very small. WHO, and the govt here, look at the bigger picture and a few sacrifices/children may seem worth it. however if you are a parent whose child has been irrevocably damaged by the MMR, you may have a different take on that sacrifice. That is why more, unbiased, and investigative research needs to be carried out.

Govt's own Cochrane report concluded Fairy Mum that the research to prove that MMR is safe or unsafe is woefully inadequate.

I grew up in Turkey (second-world, if not third-world?) and back then nobody was vaccinated against measles, mumps, and chicken pox. As a result, I had them all and so did everyone I know. We weren't taken to the hospital, our mothers cared for us at home.

So sorry if I can't take too seriously all this "if you only knew what a terrible disease measles is" schtick. Same goes for mumps - I remember the fever, swelling, and hurting ears but it was not the end of the world.

Pushing MMR with such scaremongering is an insult to our intelligence. If these are oh so terrible diseases and it is imperative that all be immunised against them, make single vaccines available on NHS. Or don't take it so hard that we are refusing the MMR.

With equally as many showing it is safe!
What are the main benefits..how big is the risk? Is it worth the risk to vaccinate or not as the case may be?
No one has given me actual conclusive evidence that it does or does not cause autism or that it is unsafe.

sometimes of course a coicidence Skimty but if your child is developing normally and then following the MMR jab has a seizure and then stops talking and interacting completely, that is quite a dramatic coincidence. I am not trying to scare monger, most children handle the MMR with no problems, but there are a smaller group of children who are very likely to be vulnerable.

Measles can be a devastating disease though Cote.

Seems to me odd that parents judge the risk of the MMR causing autism bigger than catching measles. The rush to vaccinate once there is actually an outbreak of measles is interesting. Agree with OP. As the mother of a newborn with children at school and nursery (where there has been outbreaks of measles) I feel annoyed that other parents put my baby at risk. Hopefully they go for single vaccines, but seems sometimes doing research into vaccination can run away with peoples imagination and they end up being the sort who think a little bit of polio would work wonders for the immune system.

coteDasur..tell that to my mum and my sisters, i lost my sisters to measles at 6mth old.
Complicastions can arise from measles, mumps and rubella and can be fatal, if not life changing...i am all for choice with vaccines and would welcome single jabs but do not try to make light of these illnessess they can be fatal at their worst!
That was incredibly insensitive, and are you implying that our mothers did not care for us at home..sometimes there is no choice when it goes bad..i hope you never have any complications with any childhood illnessess that requires a hospital visit and i wouldnt wish what my family went through on anyone.

Different children have different risk factors Fairy Mum. My son had gut bleeding from the age of 3 months, and still has inflammatory problems with his intestines. So the research into gut disorders and the link with autism is vital for parents like me.
I do think it is an incredible generalisation to talk about parents who have doubts about vaccination as if they all think a little bit of polio is good for the immune system. i have heard of people like that but they are in the minority i think.

Mumps in a child is very rarely serious. Rubella often goes unnoticed. Measles can be nasty but very very rarely and more often in those children who have other ailments and a fragile immune and respiratory system.

This isn't to say we shouldn't have vaccines, necessarily but don't believe the hysteria about these diseases. For the majority, they were common and manageable diseases. Part of growing up.

There's a lot more to the vaccine issue than MMR and autism.

How would you feel if your child caught measles and was fatal? knowing i could have prevented it, i would have been mortified, that is why i gave the MMR to mine, it is proven that it can kill or maim and the vaccine can prevent it so for me having seen it first hand..there was no choice..if single jabs were available i probably would have gone that way but they are not..and i have not the means ie the funds to pay for them. You have to use your common sense, along with your own knowledge, and life experiences, family background to make the right decision for your child.

Exactly BitCat.

And Stuffitlama, there are lots of things in vaccinations aside from the MMR controversy that I simply do not want to inject into my child!

I mean, making the right decision for your own child, BitCat.

I'd love to have access to acceptable single vaccines, but I don't, in terms of availiability or finances. My enforced choice is therefore 'my way or the highway'. And as has been mentioned, it's not as simple as just MMR and Autism.

Thanks for the link welliemum, I will read it carefully when I have time.

For those who blithely claim that there is no evidence of a link between vaccines and autism, I would love to know where you are getting your information from as you seem to know more than the government and its experts! Maybe you should get on to the Special Masters who recently recognised in an Omnibus case that vaccines played a role in Hannah Poling developing symtoms of autism and tell them that they are wrong before they pay out thousands of dollars in damages! You should quickly get on to the experts at the Cochrane Review and tell them that they are mistaken!

The fact is that there is a building body of evidence that links vaccines and autism. No doubt if funding was not cut off and researchers weren't witchunted for investigating MMR, there would be even more evidence.

There are peer reviewed studies, clinical evidence and huge amounts of anecdotal evidence. Also there is the fact that there is a rise in ASD that we have no other credible explanation for. A rise in ASD cases, that in the US in particular, follows the rise in the number of vaccines given. Then there is the fact that some autistic children's condition improves when they follow treatments that target vaccine damage.

Currently there is a doctor (Dr Yazbak) who is trying to find one single child who presents a case of regressive autism with autistic enterocolitis who is unvaccinated, to date he has not found a single case.

So far the government and the medical establishment are relying on epidemiological studies to demonstrate that MMR does not trigger autism in susceptible children. All of the studies produced so far have been criticised for either serious problems of conflict of interest and/or methodological flaws that render the study useless. The much touted Taylor study, the Danish study and Fombonne's studies are all high profile examples of this. All these studies were declared as definitive yet they are all now discredited. There comes a time when one is obliged to ask if these experts are incompetent since they seem curiously unable to design an unflawed study (unlikely) or if they are in fact extemely competent at manipulating statistics to achieve results that suit their own ends.

The famous 2005 Cochrane Report only examined 31 studies out of a roughly 5000 that were submitted. The Review has been accused of discarding papers that that show MMR in a bad light. BTW the Report did not examine Dr Wakefield's work, which still stands unchallanged and which so far no-one has discredited. Hence no doubt the need for the extensive smear campaign to try and ruin Dr Wakefield's reputation.

There is evidence that the safety of MMR warrants further investigation, yet that government keeps trying to draw a line under the entire subject. The government also seems curiously unwilling to examine children who are suspected of being damaged by MMR and to perform a study which directly replicates Dr Wakefield's. All this just doesn't look good and it certainly doesn't inspire confidence.

For anyone interested in how the concepts of 'proof' and 'evidence' relate to this issue and why parental anecdotal evidence is being unjustifyably dismissed this makes for interesting reading. The first response by Clifford Miller and the last one by Richard Carruthers make the point well.

It is worth reading for anyone who has bought the story that parents who think their children are vaccine damaged are 'looking for someone to blame' or somehow victims of mass hysteria.

This whole sorry tale is no conspiracy, it is a plain old fasioned cover-up just like we have already seen with tobacco, asbestos and thalidomide.

The herd immunity issue isn't just about children; it's also about those who are immune-compromised for others reasons - those with HIV or auto-immune conditions, those having chemotherapy. A dose of measles could kill someone in those circumstances.

This isn't to say that I have no sympathy for those parents struggling with the vaccine issue, BTW. If there was a history of autism in my family, or my DP's family, it would have made me think twice.

Beachcomber I have the pleasure of saying ITA back to you.

by the way Mrs M.. when you're ready.. my waffle is ready for you..

Vert true policywonk..our decisions affect everyone not just our own so i can see why someone would get angry..but i can see both sides of the arguement here.
I thought it best to vaccinate mine for the reasons i said, but it really is the government that we should all be angry at for taking away the choice of single jabs!

WHO advises that the MMR is used.
The WHO has backed, in fact strongly endorsed, the use of MMR, has commissioned a review of the MMR and has found no link between MMR and autism and as the WHO is the authority on health for the members of the UN and most if not all of those countries use the MMR.

The WHO has a huge interest in the MMR being safe, or seen to be safe.

The problem is that most of the research is backed by government in these countries, or it's done by companies with an interest in the outcome.

You don't think that if something was found they would actually put it in the report for joe public to read and start a huge mass lawsuit?

It's not only the mmr, we are only told what they want us to know. And I'm not scaremongering, that's just the way it is.

Thank you stuffitllama.

BTW there is a simple and cheap study which could be done to examine a vaccine/autism link. One only has to compare autism rates on a large scale in vaccinated and unvaccinated populations. Autism groups have been campainging for years for such a study. Government has refused.

Agree with other posters that there is a lot more to all this than just MMR and autism.