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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be concerned about a new fresh hell for female school pupils?

157 replies

Villamariawine · 21/06/2024 09:57

I’ve name changed for this as I don’t want the assumption to be I am one of the parents. I’m not. But I am the mother of a 6th former DD.

From The Times today - it is behind a paywall so I’ve included some of the salient points. I’ve removed the poll because frankly I’d be aghast if anyone thinks I am being unreasonable.
Two private schools are at the centre of a criminal investigation into the alleged making and sharing of deepfake pornographic images. Police are investigating claims that the deepfakes were created at a boys’ school by someone manipulating images taken from the social media accounts of pupils at a girls’ school.
The schools are in the same area of the country. Detectives became involved seven weeks ago when staff at the girls’ school alerted police and social services to reports that deepfake images and videos were in circulation at the boys’ school. About a dozen girls are thought to have been victims.

The report goes on to say:

Both schools are spending tens of thousands of pounds on crisis management PR firms and London law firms to manage the fallout. It is understood police asked the schools not to undertake internal inquiries or disciplinary measures during their investigation.

And

Police declined to comment on claims that they had been unable to recover phones and computer equipment of potential value to the investigation.

And

A spokesman for the boys’ school said: “Were any allegation to be received, the school would always take all appropriate steps to ensure the matter was fully and thoroughly investigated, including through making reports to, and taking advice from, the relevant external agencies and authorities. The school will always fully co-operate with any police investigation or directions.”

I’m not interested in which schools these are (The Times has not named them) and for the sake of the girls, please don’t name them. I’d wager that the lack of progress into some sort of justice for the girls is why The Times knows about the situation.

My AIBU is that this apparently happened at the start of May. Exams will have taken place, pupils will have left, important choices will have had to be made and these poor girls have had to deal with this on top of everything and the perpetrators are seemingly facing no consequences almost two months on. The Police have moved very quickly on other matters, why not this one? It is a criminal offence to even make deepfake images of a child, let alone distribute them. If there is nothing amiss, why are PR firms and Law Firms involved? Why would the girls school need to hire them? Surely their first thought is for the welfare on their pupils who are involved through no fault of their own? These images could follow them around forever if they were created of the girls when they were over the age of 18. Was nothing learned by schools after ‘everyone’s invited?’ about trying to cover up bad behaviour?

I’m dismayed that girls and their parents are being subjected to this new fresh hell.

OP posts:
HelmholtzWatson · 24/06/2024 04:55

BMXsummoner · 23/06/2024 10:44

Then perhaps you can explain to me how your comment wasn’t just the bog standard “not all men” deflection that is deployed as standard whenever the issue of male sexual violence is raised?

You said that demonising men is just as bad if not worse than the actual violence itself. With respect, I disagree.

What I actually said was demonising ALL men because of the actions of a small minority, is just as bad if not worse than the actual violence itself.

HelmholtzWatson · 24/06/2024 05:38

TheaBrandt · 23/06/2024 10:18

No one is saying all men hate women. Some do though. Enough men are doing this to warrant legislation in parliament and bbc serious documentaries being made so your denials look pretty weak. God I wish it was t true too.

What denials? I haven't denied this is going on (it is) or that it's a problem (it is).

What I'm saying is that toxic, divisive stereotypes like "women have little idea of how much men hate them" are not going to resolve anything

When groups demean each other, it can lead to prejudice, bias and discrimination. This subsequently makes it' much easier to do something harmful to individuals of the "out-group".

Therefore, we need to call out bad behaviour when we see it and teach kindness, civility and respect towards each other.

BMXsummoner · 24/06/2024 05:44

HelmholtzWatson · 24/06/2024 04:55

What I actually said was demonising ALL men because of the actions of a small minority, is just as bad if not worse than the actual violence itself.

Really? You really think that “demonising” men as a class of people is actually worse than the sexual violence perpetrated against real life human beings??

As I’ve already said, I disagree. The two things are not equivalent by any reasonable measure.

poetryandwine · 24/06/2024 10:20

jacks11 · 23/06/2024 22:21

I am absolutely aware that sexual violence and harassment are not always well handled by police, institutions of all kinds including schools, universities/colleges or workplaces. And this means victims don’t receive justice and perpetrators get away with it. The victims can/often are actively harmed by coming forward because of how they are treated by the system from the police to the courts. I absolutely understand that. It’s possible to understand that but still believe that being outraged that an investigation into something which is potentially quite complex would not be concluded, the alleged perpetrators charged and brought to trial in a period of a few months, is both unrealistic and unjustified.

Furthermore, none of those facts mentioned means that an alleged perpetrator can be made to “face consequences” on the basis of an allegation of wrongdoing alone. The only point at which it is appropriate or possible to punish them through the legal system is when they are tried and convicted. I don’t understand what is controversial about that statement? I’m well aware of the issues in relation to low levels of prosecution-and even lower conviction rates- for rape/sexual assault and harassment, but the principle stands for all people being prosecuted. It has to for the justice system to have even a semblance of function. There would be chaos if punishments were meted out for every accusation made, without any investigation or trial.

The only “consequence” that can be meted out by the school until they have evidence of who is involved is to suspend any pupils alleged to be involved. If they are being told they can’t investigate (rightly so) then they probably can’t expel those pupils. Depending on what the school know to be true, they may not be in a position to suspend. They absolutely cannot name any pupils alleged to be involved, nor disclose what actions they have taken. Same as any school. Rightly so.

I have no idea if the school(s) have behaved appallingly or not. I have no idea if the police have been incompetent or behaved callously to the victims. I’m just saying that I don’t think the fact the investigation hasn’t been quick enough, nor the punishment swift enough, for your liking necessarily means the police are not doing a good job/not taking it seriously. I’m not sure that you can conclude one way or another.

So, I agree it is a terrible thing that these young women have been subjected to this criminal behaviour and I also agree that this need to be investigated and those believed to be responsible must charged and put on trial. If convicted, they should be punished and it should be meaningful. I don’t agree that rich young men at private school should forfeit their right to a trial before being publicly punished, on the basis that they are rich young men who are alleged to have committed a crime against young women.

Your post is fine and thoughtful, as far as it goes. There isn’t a word here I disagree with.

However I think part of the problem is that we’re all aware of too many cases where the wheels of British justice have ground exceedingly slowly when it’s a case of crime at the heart of the establishment. There seems to be a real hope that people will forget and the thing can be buried, perhaps with a slap on the wrist.

These girls and boys are in their formative years. The need for swift justice is particularly acute, so the girls can recover from the trauma and move on with their lives, and the guilty parties (if any) can be appropriately punished rather than swanning into university with unblemished records.

Of course a fair trial is imperative but in other civilised countries preparing for one does not take years. Why should the UK be different?

TheaBrandt · 24/06/2024 13:06

My quiet shy Dd is about to turn 18. I genuinely don’t think I could be responsible for my actions if a male did that to her and got away with it due to having a male judge. I would destroy his life.

bombastix · 24/06/2024 14:19

I think the reality is that in such places it is all about young men making a mistake. But these are not mistakes and the behaviour is calculated. These are active decisions boys are making, not some kind of error. The mistake is only found out when the girl is brave enough to report it.

How girls trust boys enough in this environment is tough. If a grown man did this to me, I’d have a better chance of some justice. I would have sentenced this boy to some custody

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