To be concerned about a new fresh hell for female school pupils?

[Villamariawine]

I’ve name changed for this as I don’t want the assumption to be I am one of the parents. I’m not. But I am the mother of a 6th former DD.

From The Times today - it is behind a paywall so I’ve included some of the salient points. I’ve removed the poll because frankly I’d be aghast if anyone thinks I am being unreasonable.
Two private schools are at the centre of a criminal investigation into the alleged making and sharing of deepfake pornographic images. Police are investigating claims that the deepfakes were created at a boys’ school by someone manipulating images taken from the social media accounts of pupils at a girls’ school.
The schools are in the same area of the country. Detectives became involved seven weeks ago when staff at the girls’ school alerted police and social services to reports that deepfake images and videos were in circulation at the boys’ school. About a dozen girls are thought to have been victims.

The report goes on to say:

Both schools are spending tens of thousands of pounds on crisis management PR firms and London law firms to manage the fallout. It is understood police asked the schools not to undertake internal inquiries or disciplinary measures during their investigation.

And

Police declined to comment on claims that they had been unable to recover phones and computer equipment of potential value to the investigation.

And

A spokesman for the boys’ school said: “Were any allegation to be received, the school would always take all appropriate steps to ensure the matter was fully and thoroughly investigated, including through making reports to, and taking advice from, the relevant external agencies and authorities. The school will always fully co-operate with any police investigation or directions.”

I’m not interested in which schools these are (The Times has not named them) and for the sake of the girls, please don’t name them. I’d wager that the lack of progress into some sort of justice for the girls is why The Times knows about the situation.

My AIBU is that this apparently happened at the start of May. Exams will have taken place, pupils will have left, important choices will have had to be made and these poor girls have had to deal with this on top of everything and the perpetrators are seemingly facing no consequences almost two months on. The Police have moved very quickly on other matters, why not this one? It is a criminal offence to even make deepfake images of a child, let alone distribute them. If there is nothing amiss, why are PR firms and Law Firms involved? Why would the girls school need to hire them? Surely their first thought is for the welfare on their pupils who are involved through no fault of their own? These images could follow them around forever if they were created of the girls when they were over the age of 18. Was nothing learned by schools after ‘everyone’s invited?’ about trying to cover up bad behaviour?

I’m dismayed that girls and their parents are being subjected to this new fresh hell.

I had someone I thought was a dear friend make deep fakes of me. Very close to the family.

It felt awful and degrading and I as an adult was traumatised by it, and I don't use that word lightly.

I have stopped going to places and things he's invited to, which means I miss out. But I feel utter disgust and skin crawling illness about him.

It must be awful for these young girls, these children to have had this happen. I hope they are okay. I really do, because it's an awful thing to have done to you.

Yup, and women will be blamed for it…

One boy told a friend of dds that if she did not send him nude pictures to share with his friends he would commit suicide 🙄. They were 14 at the time.

Sorry that happened Therapy. Sounds horrific and definitely traumatising.

Women can still have babies without being in a couple, they may chose to live with other woman in partnerships and communes maybe.

This. If we want to understand why so many girls want to be non-binary it is this. One of our dd’s is now in a happy relationship with a woman and although it was somewhat out of the blue (she had previously dated exclusively male partners) I did think it was possibly down to some awful experiences with men.

No one considered choking a ‘thing’ when we were young girls - the only time auto asphyxiation came into the mainstream was the death of Michael Hutchence (and that was considered extremely niche)

Men will only have themselves to blame when no woman wants to be alone with them.

Well, I’d agree your judgement is clouded by your own experiences and views. What happened to your daughter’s friend was wrong,, but it doesn’t mean that this situation is the same and be judged through the same prism. For a start, it is an inescapable fact due process IS absolutely required on legal matters. You can’t just decide someone’s guilty simply because you think so, without ascertaining the facts and gathering the evidence to prove it. You certainly can’t make someone “face the consequences” on the basis you think they should be punished, before you’ve actually completed an investigation. Innocent until proven guilty, after all. There would be utter chaos if you could lock people up/sack them/meet out punishments etc on the basis you seem to suggest.

There can be no consequences for the alleged perpetrators unless or until they are prosecuted and found guilty. That’s how the law works.

The school can do nothing other than suspension, unless they can be 100% sure who is responsible- in which case they could expel them. That really is the limit of the schools power to mete out punishment. But if that degree of evidence was available, surely the police would also be arresting them?

All that said, the school- quite correctly- will absolutely not discuss whether they have or have not suspended any pupils with any group or the media, so I’m not sure how you can judge how the boys school has acted, one way or another.

The law and due process has to be adhered to for everyone. Even wealthy young men attending a private school, who are alleged to have committed crimes against women. I know many will come in here to say they are the very group most likely to get away with wrongdoing- maybe true, but nonetheless a proper investigation must still be done.

Also in state schools. Has happened in one of the local state schools with more than one couple caught having sex on school grounds.

Being caught having sex and deliberately filming without consent are VERY different things.

I’d love to live in a world full of equality and expert, sensitive and thorough policing where everyone in the chain of evidence is honest, truthful and co-operative. Sadly these young women are up against a system designed to protect the guilty by virtue of access to the best lawyers.

I really hope that you never have cause to find out how the system really works for a child of yours that has been violated. Or maybe visit the everyone’s invited website to see how young women say they’ve been treated trying to report this.

My instinct is that this is to do with the parents, nothing to do with the school. I work in a school - I have zero control over what the kids at home. I imagine schools also have to follow a fair process.

Why are parents allowing children access to the internet to do things like this? Mumsnet needs to start being realistic about the dangers of phones to all students.

I think it's got to be a team effort. What are the rules these days about phones in secondary schools?
Back in my day, I even had to hand my walkman/Discman into the school office if I was caught with it in the school day!

Personally I would want to know if it was my daughter’s school. And to ensure the boy’s school cooperated in handing over evidence and dealing with the alleged offenders. Thankfully this seems to be fake imagery (not that that is much comfort to the victims). Sixteen year olds are old enough to be treated as sex offenders. After #metoo etc the schools have had thorough educational programs. No parent or school should defend this. Cover up and it encourages this behaviour. Clean these predators out of our schools.

Another thing to remember here is that obviously the boys doing this did not hand themselves in, meaning someone has seen their films and come forward to get the problem solved (maybe a teacher or one of their friends/classmates/boy at school). What are we doing to these people who step forward bravely, putting their own reputation and friendships on the line? These schools are potentially teaching a whole lot of boys the way to react in these situations.

It is a criminal offence to create a deepfake of any child already. No distribution is necessary for it to be an offence. The adult deepfake creation was due to be placed into legislation but then a GE was called.

You are right in that both schools model to their pupils how to handle this sort of behaviour. Time will tell.

In my experience (3 x teens at secondary school) the education they receive around consent and online images etc is woefully inadequate.

It’s positioned as ‘Boys, don’t be a dick’ and ‘this isn’t a nice thing to do’, when really what’s missing is to tell them that having sex with a girl without her consent or creating or sharing pornographic images is ILLEGAL and a sex offense.

I honestly think many of them don’t understand how much trouble they will get into.

The video they seem to use a lot uses the analogy of offering a cup of tea. The makers of this might think it’s clever, but it’s not telling boys remotely how serious this is.

Sex education in secondary schools needs to step up.

In my experience (3 x teens at secondary school) the education they receive around consent and online images etc is woefully inadequate.

On a thread on here recently, it was suggested that seperate male and female classes were given around consent. There is a huge difference in what needs to be taught to either sex. It was torn apart by some boy mums who were offended that their sons needed to be taught about consent.
I can guarantee that wherever these boys are who have committed these crimes, mummy and daddy are doing their best to ensure this is swept under the rug.
The boys will be boys shit is used to excuse the most horrific behaviour and I'm past caring who agrees with me.
It is getting harder for young girls out there, not easier.

‘One of our dd’s is now in a happy relationship with a woman and although it was somewhat out of the blue (she had previously dated exclusively male partners) I did think it was possibly down to some awful experiences with men.’

Nope, that’s not how it works. The ‘men are awful I’ll try women’ trope isn’t real…

We choose to be with women because we are sexually and romantically attracted to them. That goes for whether you’re a lesbian or bisexual.

The headmaster of the boys school has resigned and is leaving next year.

Demonising groups of people by the behaviour of a minority, whether we're talking about sex, religion, ethnicity and so on, is as much a problem as the behaviour of the minority, if not more so.

Not when the behaviour of the minority is becoming a culture amongst that group. That’s dangerous.

What evidence do you have that this is the case? Just because a story appears in The Daily Mail every so often doesn't mean it's widespread.

"Deepfake images have become more prevalent in recent years, with images being viewed millions of times a month across the world. "
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-cracks-down-on-deepfakes-creation#:~:text=Despicable%20people%20who%20create%20sexually,today%20(16%20April%202024).&text=Under%20the%20new%20offence%2C%20those,record%20and%20an%20unlimited%20fine.

A school or organisational culture of hushing things up is very bad news for victims of these offences. I wouldn't want my dc going to such a school.

It’s widespread in the schools my teens go to.