Discrepancy in attitude towards school fees and nursery fees

[Happysallie]

I find it very curious in the various debates around school fees that:

1. School fees at an avg of £1,250-1,500 pcm is the preserve of the rich due to the sums involved; but

2. Nursery fees at an avg. of £1,250-1,500 pcm is… just an ordinary expense that parents should plan for

Every parent of a child under four is effectively paying the equivalent to a private education, probably at a far earlier stage in their careers / earning power.

No observation on private education right or wrong, just bizarre to see people spending £1,500 a month on private school as impossibly wealthy while most parents I know are scraping by, begging and borrowing, fund £2-3k a month in nursery fees.

This more an observation at the acceptance of insane nursery fees, than the cost of private education!

We’re contemplating private school for our DC but hesitating because while we can afford preschool fees, they are still 20% less than private school and private school likely to have additional extras. It’s also a short term expense for us, whereas if we do private school, we would likely want to continue for the full 12 years. 12 years of having an additional £25/k a year, it’s a lot. We’ve been ok with saving a little less because we know it will come to an end.

Totally agree. We caught up with some old friends a couple of months back and they were absolutely gobsmacked that the fees we pay for two children in prep school is just £200/month more than they do for one in full time nursery (funding hasn’t kicked in yet but it doesn’t drop by a huge amount according to them).

We never used full time nursery to compare as I reduced my hours in the preschool years

We wanted children so we knew we'd have to suck up the costs of nursery fees. This meant condensing my hours, having a much bigger age gap than we would have liked, me going part time after DC2.
Fortunately we live in an area with good state schools (it’s unlikely that we would have considered private anyway) so we knew that the financial pain would end before too long.

This thread is absolutely laughable. You think there’s no difference in affording childcare for circa 3yrs compared with private education for 13?

Yeah ok. Have fun with that.

There’s a hell of a difference to doing that for a couple of years as opposed to well over a decade.

Noone I know pre-saved for nursery!! They may have pre planned (smaller house, saved up holiday to offset the number of nursery days) but noone I know paid from savings.

Neither did the families that found themselves having to go private when their children were diagnosed (can’t plan that can you?) and found there was no SEN provision to speak of at the state schools.

Many save through primary years to afford secondary school. Most privately educated kids in the UK are in secondary school, with many parents saving through the 7 years of primary. Secondary school is 5 years. Many have just 1 child for affordability and others have at least 3 schools years between 2 kids to limit years paying for 2. Many remortgage

Even without VAT, the rate of fees increase was on track to price these families out soon anyway. VAT is just fast tracking the issue

Inadvertently a good thing - forcing schools to reconsider their financial model if they want to remain in existence. Or maybe plan to only service the top 0.1% + expats

Also a good thing as parents forced out of private school will hopefully redirect the savings to uni fees and spare their kids debt (and housing ladder access). There is a significant correlation between high uni debt (and debt in general) and reduced productivity. Less debt, more innovation and productivity, better outcomes.

Most people I know can't afford full time nursery fees. Is there an option to pay for part time school? No. It's not the same at all.

The majority don’t send their children to private school from 4-18. They tend to pick the time they believe the child will benefit the most and save up in advance.

I don’t know a single person who saved up for nursery but many who did (along with other financial moves) for private education

I don’t live in London or in a city and the local private school is £1900 a month for primary school. £2300 for secondary.

Most use private for 5 or 7 years. Secondary years. As fees have increased, the numbers using private primary have significantly reduced. Maybe 4% of primary kids are in private, 12% is at secondary and up to 20% for Alevels. So infact, most engagement of private school is for Alevels (2 years)

Nursery aged children get free hours. I'm pretty certain private school children get no free hours.
It is short term. Lots of parents don't return to work until child is 1 so only 3 years and not every child is full time.
Plus private school has expensive uniform, equipment and trips, nursery don't.
Basically the nursery fee includes everything, private school fees don't.

The fact that there is no state funded alternative truly genuinely baffles me. It's a feminist issue and I don't understand how other women don't see it that way.

If women have to quit work or go part time to take care of children until they are 3 or 4, if you have 2 kids, that's you out of work/doing junior work for 4-5 years and then you're massively behind your peers career wise. It will take you a decade to catch up with male peers.

How many single mothers are there on here left holding the baby and unable to progress while their ex gets to have a career? Truly affordable or free childcare would sort that.

Then kids get to the age of 4 and everyone takes for granted that school should be free.

I don't get it either.

That irrelevant. Primary school and secondary school separately are still over double the length of time as nursery. And if you have two children, which most people do, you absolutely will be facing those costs for over a decade.

Nursery fees in London are £2k a month for bog standard nurseries. The really fancy ones are well over £3k a month.

You don't get any reduction beyond the free 15 hours if one of the parents over 100k.
So people in middle management roles, have to find those fees or reduce/compress hours, beg family etc. You don't have to be rich to feel squeezed by nursery years but people survive it. The same people may decide to take that pain for 5-7 years.

Absolutely. It is an option to have one child in nursery at a time. You'd have to start really young and hope for good health in order to send one child through private school at a time.

That’s still over double the length of nursery, so irrelevant. Those with sixth formers are also much more likely to be in higher earning years than toddlers years.

@Didimum but not everyone sends their children to private school from 4-18. That would actually be a minority of private school pupils.

As @newmummycwharf1 says, most pick a period (primary, secondary, sixth form).

@LimeandCourgette theres not really much ‘choice’ on having a child in nursery if you need to work. Even if the friends I know with local family, I can only think of one where grandparents help out a day a week to reduce nursery costs.

But most people don’t go private for a decade. We know plenty doing junior school only, others who plan on going private for secondary through GCSEs. The most frequently accessed private school experience is 6th form, which is only 2 years.

most of those using private education planned and saved for it while also sacrificing a fair deal in day to day. Parents alter work patterns in order to make it work in both examples.

i think op’s original question still stands - why is private education seen as an unobtainable luxury while nursery is seen as a reasonable expense ?

… right.

So in your higher earning years, affording a private sixth form is the preserve of the rich…

… but in your lower earning years, affording a similarly priced nursery is…. just normal?

Depends on the private school - ours has uniform that is cheaper than local state schools and is in central London. Trips are inclusive. Dont always believe what you hear.

And many people on the cusp don't qualify for free hours beyond 15 hours. Infact, the person on 101k loses access to the 30 free hours, loses their personal allowance and has no access to tax free childcare allowance.

These policies mainly affect those on the margins who are squeezed on every side. 100k really is not rich by any stretch and families with an earner in low 100s (single parents for eg) or a lowish earning partner re hit the worst

Nursery fees are not seen as a reasonable expense, or they certainly weren't in my case.

Did I want children, yes, well stump up the nursery fees then.

Totally agree with this. That is true choice

Don't know about you. My kids were in nursery from 6 months till 4.5. That is 4 years. Secondary is 5 years
If you have 2 kids - and many make the sacrifice of having just one kid. If you have 2 kids and space them 3 years apart, as many do these days - 2 sets of fees only occur over 2 years.

Not that difficult to see that for some people, it is not a far cry from the tough nursery years. And since most are secondary or Alevels, hopefully more senior

Certainly if they aspire to private - they would be the sort to push for promotions etc