Discrepancy in attitude towards school fees and nursery fees

[Happysallie]

I find it very curious in the various debates around school fees that:

1. School fees at an avg of £1,250-1,500 pcm is the preserve of the rich due to the sums involved; but

2. Nursery fees at an avg. of £1,250-1,500 pcm is… just an ordinary expense that parents should plan for

Every parent of a child under four is effectively paying the equivalent to a private education, probably at a far earlier stage in their careers / earning power.

No observation on private education right or wrong, just bizarre to see people spending £1,500 a month on private school as impossibly wealthy while most parents I know are scraping by, begging and borrowing, fund £2-3k a month in nursery fees.

This more an observation at the acceptance of insane nursery fees, than the cost of private education!

@LadyFeatheringt0n based on discussion with my friend, nursery fees seem to vary from £1,800 to about £2,300 locally now.

Op no one thinks its ok how unaffordable nursery is.

Thats why there's so much push for things like 30 hour funding from a younger age.

Surely this. If there was state run nursery we would question why would people spend that money on a privately run nursery. There are countries with state run nurseries that are fab. This is what we should aspire to.

People do the sane thing for private school. Just there are no funded hours or tax breaks.

You get tax free on childcare. You get the 15/30 funded hours on childcare. Childcare requires no added wraparound hours cost as the hours fit working times. People rarely have two children overlapping in childcare for very long at all. Affording childcare for 2.5yrs is wildly different from affording the cost for 13 years.

Really? What is this post? It’s completely ignorant.

Clever post because people are coming up with the sacrifices they make to pay nursery fees. PS parents who are not very rich do these same sacrifices. Such as not contributing to pensions, no savings and a lesser quality of life.

Averages are really variable too. We pay nursery fees for example 220 pm for 2 days/week, 3yo. The nursery’s gorgeous.

It’s also a stupid comparison because nearly everyone I know can’t afford full time nursery fees so relies on grandparents or swaps childcare with another part time mum. I know that’s not an option for everyone I’m just saying not everyone can make it work. And not to say everyone who does is but the only people I know who use full time childcare are very wealthy!

I live near and work in london - the upper end of the range you quote is the "naice" nurseries and I'd guess thats the price before:

• tax free childcare
• funded hours

There are cheaper options. You can get a childminder for £7/h in my expensive commuter town. For 8.30 - 5.30 thats £63 a day, £1,386 for 22 working days a month. Its not cheap. But when you factor in tax free childcare, funded hours etc you can bring it down.

There's a also a local preschool which offers school hours on the funded hours with very little top up.

Most people i know do work 4 days a week max because the 5th day (often at highest marginal tax rate) isnt worth paying nursery from pay after tax.

Ignorant?

As I said, most people I know with two kids are paying £2-3k a month on childcare, inclusive of government support. Sometimes more.

Not at all for many small independent schools.

I don't know anyone who thinks nursery fees are "manageable". But the drive to reproduce is innately human, and most people are just muddling through until their child goes to school.

Paying for nursery isn't really a choice in the same way private school is because there isn't a state funded alternative.

Id love to see more government subsidies for pre school childcare because most people i know with young children cannot actually afford childcare but it's essential if you don't want to get sacked.

Private schools in London are not £1.2k per month... Try 2/3k!

Nursery is also more expensive in London

The two just aren't comparable.

Yes nursery costs are 1000+ per month per child, but the cost significantly reduces after age 3...people will time gaps to avoid having more than one child at high cost at once. Then it's all done once they get to school. I added it up. For me, it was a painful £56,000 per child, and despite having 3 I managed not to have to pay for more than one at a time, which is possible with the shorter period the costs apply. I think I fit the demographic you describe -two working parents, no family help. Total cost £168,000. Shocking but necessary if you are working; as others have said there is no alternative.

If my children went to the local private secondary school (6 years from age 12-18), not even the full 13 years of schooling, not only would the 6 years include overlaps so I would be paying for 2 at a time but the whole time from child one year one to child 3 final year would take so much longer (12 years). The total cost would be £486,000 as my local option is 27k per year.

That's quite a big difference, before considering all the other financial differences between raising older children versus toddlers. No one was asking for expensive uniforms, overseas trips, and smart phones when they were in nursery...

I don’t know anyone paying £2k-£3k in nursery fees a month, it must be where you live. So your argument doesn’t work, most people aren’t paying that, and can’t afford private school fees. We probably could if we really had to short term, we’d have to cut right back and either extend the mortgage or use savings, but we wouldn’t have enough for all of the school years. We could sustain £2k nursery fees either. It absolutely is a luxury to be able to afford £2k a month either in nursery or school fees.

Um, no they are not. At least not where I live. If you were looking at sixth form it might be a little more - more like £1,750 pm, but for gcse years it is within op’s range.

Think you are talking to the wall, looking at some of these replies.

You’re right - there is a inherent hipocrisy here. If you can find £2k for school fees, you are wealthy; if you can find £2k for FT nursery (where I live that’s the cost), then you are simply scrimping and saving for a necessity.

The fact that 56% of the 605,000 kids in schools affiliated to the ISI have SEN needs, so parents have to scrimp and save to keep their kids in environments that better support their children until 18 is because they are wealthy, not because it is felt by the parents to be a necessity.

The problem with MN is that they think private schools are all Eton and Winchester, when most of them are small schools in the old Victorian houses on market town high streets - small rooms, ancient heating, tiny rooms, a lone acre of garden, no parking… but the class sizes and ‘smaller’ scale makes managing their children’s SEN needs easier.

Yes, ignorant.

And yes, that’s covered by ‘people rarely have two children overlapping in childcare for long’. Eg 1-2 years.

There are lots of other places than Londin though!

Nursery isn’t that expensive everywhere.

The 3 nearest private senior schools
to us are £22k, £28k and £30k for day kids.

Full time nursery before funded hours is £55-£65/day. Nowhere near private school fees.

DD is 4 and for 4 days a week we pay £375 a month after tax free childcare and funded hours. We couldn’t pay school fees but can pay for nursery.

Good observation OP.

Private education = oh you must be so wealthy!

Private childcare = fact of life, put up with it or don’t work.

Also why do ppl trot out the old “funded hours” line - if you have a child in full time then the funded hours is let’s say, nice but almost pointless. By the time the nursery add back in food plus the hours you don’t get, plus the fact it is only 2/3rds of the year, childcare for one in full time is still extortionate. If you have twins or two close together are screwed.

Im not against private education and I’m all in favour of state provided childcare.

You’re right - there is a inherent hipocrisy here. If you can find £2k for school fees, you are wealthy; if you can find £2k for FT nursery (where I live that’s the cost), then you are simply scrimping and saving for a necessity.

Most people pre-save for nursery costs, or spend their entire savings on it. I’ve even known a few people take out loans for it or extend their mortgage term. It is absolutely no comparison to choosing to privately educate a child, not to mention two.

This is true. And same with those for whome private school is just on the cusp of affordability. Choosing to take a hit on lifestyle for the 5 years of secondary, having a single child, having 3 school years between kids so you are paying fees for 2 for only 2 years are strategies some people use. They are choices but the OP is correct to highlight that what many deem as unaffordable has been affordable for a small proportion of private parents who value the provisions of their private school

It highlights the truth in the fact that some make significant adjustments to afford it. It also flags how expensive childcare is (and importance of extended family and community/close friends to mitigate that!)

And the no funded hours, no tax breaks, no claiming back on UC or tax credits is what makes it impossible for most people to afford - Whereas those things help them scrape by nursery. without those nursery would simply be unaffordable for many.