To think if you've always lived in an affluent place you have no real idea about inequality in the UK?

[Pipsquiggle]

To give a bit of context, I grew up in one of the poorest boroughs in the country and now live in one of the richest.

Had a chat with a colleague today, saying I had randomly bumped into Wes Streeting yesterday and had a chat with him and wished him well. She said I could never vote for Labour, they are terrible with money.

I then said well at least they closed the inequality gap which had been completely undone and made worse by the Tories.
She asked what did I mean so I outlined the following:
Underfunding of councils in poor area which were already under the kosh
Underfunding of schools and SEN
Lack of transport infrastructure so if you don't have a car in many towns you are fucked, which in turn can lead to wage suppression
Closure of Sure start centres
Only being able to afford UP foods and the knock effects on the NHS and behaviour at schools............

I made a few more points and she admitted she just said she had no idea. I told her that if I had lived where I had live now all my life that I probably would be a Tory too but I can't ignore the poverty in my home town.

So AIBU to think that if you have only lived in an affluent area, you don't really understand how bad it is in the wider country?

No I don’t agree. Actually a lot of Labour voters are affluent middle class types whose ideas about the working class are patronising at best. We saw that a lot on brexit (I’m a remainer) and also things like 2 child cap (unite survey showed their membership support this but their leaders do not).

people have different opinions for different reasons. There is no one right opinion. Try to be more tolerant.

Having supportive parents has always been a privilege rich or poor. You tell me why it’s not the norm ?
I never said that poor parents make bad parents.

Of course it is much harder for people to understand something they have no direct experience of

That works both ways though, the middle classes may be patronising, the working classes can equally be so

Oh totally OP!

I don’t know @Triskeline I think there are big parts of southern England which whilst they may be ‘rougher’ areas masses of people would never have occasion to go into them and these rougher areas are no way like some of the places I could take people to in the north of England Scotland.

I think a large amount of people would be shocked.

Yes I agree. My grandparents lived in a very rough estate (dad was brought up there). The local play parks are constantly being smashed up and the nursery outdoors centre gets set on fire regularly. That’s why they are in bad shape.

I don’t understand why people do that and why no one stops them. I think there is a tipping point where things get so bad that people are scared to speak up then it just gets worse. But ultimately change can’t come from outside.

To be fair they don’t chose their constituency’s the party does, so for example a new and inexperienced labour mp would likely be given a Tory strong hold , as getting them in was unlikely. Where as a strong and experienced labour mp would be given a labour strong hold to ensure they got in. They are allocated their constituencies to give them the best chance of strong mps, it isn’t left to chance.

Absolutely. The government's are expected to do so many things people could do for themselves.
Our local church pretty much functions like a sure start centre, with playgroups, support groups, a food bank, helps people with applying for housing and benefits. With much less judgement than I encountered in sure start centres.

There is a limited amount of money to go around. Those things which can be done in and by local communities would as you say, free up money for things which cannot.

That will be the Labour government that most members of the Labour Party left seem to dismiss as "Tory lite" or "red Tories" in spite of winning 4 general elections in a row?

I don't deny their achievements. Unlike the left wing of the Labour Party.

Agreed. When people say that class doesn't exist, all that tells me is that they live in a tiny bubble where they never see class mattering.

I worked in a charity where the trustees were upper class, managers middle and frontline staff working class. I was middle myself, and left after going toe to toe with the trustees for their behaviour towards frontline staff. The WC staff were absolutely brilliant, but they massively underrated themselves. They were too worried to risk their jobs by saying anything out of line.

If they lived in London they might not have cared about extreme poverty and deprivation but they can't have been unaware of it. London has long had one of the highest poverty rates in the UK.

Cotswolds, does have some people in poverty too, but not to the extent of big cities, and yes it's less in your face than in places like London. I visited once for a short break holiday and it does seem very 'naice'.

Oxfordshire seems popular with ex MPs (Cameron, I think?. Boris too), as does Somerset (Osborne).

Seems alright to tease a "rich surrey boy" for being sheltered.

Would it be alright to tease a "chav" from your "gritty northern town" for not having broadened their horizons.

Plus, if your dd is dating this boy, then they have crossed paths. So are not as different as you think.

I have an upper middle class relation who is a genuinely lovely woman. Sensible, hard-working, has five nearly adult dc. She works pt. They live in the Home Counties where her dh has a big job. And they have a holiday home in Devon which they rent out at peak season.

I shall never forget when one of their teen dc came with me to stay with my sister in the midlands in an deprived ex mining area.

This teen, as she was then, is not entitled or spoilt, and is aware of her privilege, but her reaction to the abject poverty and social dysfunction she saw all around her in the town centre was something to behold.

She betrayed, shall we say, a few assumptions that can only have come from her upbringing and possibly the right wing press, about the poor and apparent “fecklessness” although she didn’t use that specific phrase, and it didn’t seem to occur to her that there isn’t a level playing field out there.

OK so she was only young and had had a fairly sheltered upbringing up to that point, so possibly it was wrong to judge, and obviously her attitude was strongly influenced by that of her parents, but honestly, I think there is a still a prevailing Tory attitude out there that hard work and determination will see you through, when it’s a little more complicated if you have faced years of bleak, grinding poverty and do not have the means to change your situation or “get on your bike”.

We have known him since birth as his Father is from our "Gritty Northern Town" and we all gently rib eachother about the whole North/South thing.
So you really don't need to be concerned about this Surrey Rich boy, he is fine and we love him to bits.
DD is staying with his family right now and I am sure she is getting teased for her accent. She took him a fridge magnet as a present thats says
"If it int from Yorkshire it's shite"
So maybe put down that stick you have totally got the wrong end of

Surrey tends to be affluent but there's parts with a lot of poverty. Probably less visible than in some parts of the country (which probably makes things harder for those who are poor there, because they're sort of the 'hidden poor' due to being in a county generally thought of as wealthy).

There's also some very "naice" northern areas. Sunak's constituency, for example.

I think, to be more sheltered from the realities of poverty, probably more likely if someone's from a rural area? I don't mean all rural areas are wealthy but those that are tend to be less mixed. A wealthy village, for example, with few or no social rentals (and few private rentals too, except for a couple of expensive ones).

Cities and towns are often more mixed so it's harder to ignore deprivation (caring about it is another matter).

The North/South thing is ridiculous.

For example, compare Richmond, North Yorks (wealthy) to Jaywick, Essex (very deprived).

And the two regions with the highest poverty rates in the UK are the West Midlands (not north or south) and London (south).

I also went to a 'sink school'. In the 5 years I was there, there were at least 2 attempts to close it due to poor performance, 4 heads as couldn't hack it longer than a year. Very little learning as most of the ttime was spent on behaviour management. English was a 2nd language for at least half the pupils,many could speak very little.

I knew what I wanted to do for a career and what grades I needed so I sorted it out myself. I had 1 great teacher who paid me to babysit his kids, and i used this money to buy all the relevant study gcse guides and taught myself the curriculum, and achieved 9 A's at gcse and 4 at A level. I negotiated extra tuition from a teacher in return for looking after her cats when went away in the summer.

Yes, it's not easy, but a bad school doesn't always mean a bad outcome, look at other options to support her, there are so many free online resources now. Libraries have lots of the study guides. If she is really committed and motivated, she can still do well. I was bullied and scared too, but I held on to the fact that I would do better than them in the long run, and I was right!

You just need to work hard at school and you can do anything you want.

I didn't know working hard at school was a magic cure for illness, disability, DV, becoming a lone parent due to bereavement or the other parent fucking off and not paying child support, or needing to care for a disabled child.

Do you think background is why lots of the working class say they feel betrayed by Tony Blair (very privileged background)? I don't personally think so. I think it was feeling left behind or failed by the policies but maybe I'm wrong.

And why, if background, is important, did Jeremy Corbyn (privileged background) have so much support from many on the left?

Also, if background is important, why did Tony Blair win against John Major (grew up in a council house and left school at 16)?

I don't know, perhaps things have changed recently? David Cameron (privileged) winning against David Davis (grew up on a council estate with a single mum) in the 2005 Tory leadership contest perhaps was the start?

But, I don't think voters care about MPs backgrounds as much as their policies.

Sorry I thought the rest of my post made it clear that was sarcasm at the posters who are saying people only have themselves to blame and they worked their way out of poverty.

It's not so much that voters care about the backgrounds of MPs (I'm sure some voters have no idea) but more that those in power lack understanding of the issues faced by many living in deprivation. When all members of the Cabinet are millionaires they don't understand how life is for a single mum on befits, who relies on food banks for example. Yet, these millionaires are the ones making the policies that affect those in poverty.
I strongly believe that government should be a reflection of those it represents - a mix of people from different social backgrounds, races, sexualities, sexes etc.

@BaronessEllarawrosaurus

Sorry for my confusing post.

I completely agree with you. My post was intended to continue your point, replying to the same posters you were responding to.

I should've been more clear, sorry!

'What's needed is a sense of community and service for the good of everyone.'

@placemats You are right. And yet the idea of national community service outrages many. Isn't that the same thing?

I live in a lower income area of a rural parish. I'm a single mum with a middle income, paying a mortgage & raising my child on my own.

I'm also a parish councillor, which takes a couple of evenings a month. The local council is skint, and they are belt tightening everywhere they can.
Early last Sunday morning I was out surveying the parish's road signs, so we could organise a volunteer strimming party to sort those signs obscured by vegetation. Keeping our kids safe from confused drivers.

Our community is a good place to live because the people living here are prepared to put in a bit of effort.

Or you can look at what they can do to help themselves?
DH born in to a NE mining family. He was the first one in the family to stay in education past 14 and go to uni.
He has worked his arse off to raise himself up to where we are now (yes I have worked too). Not wealthy but definitely comfortable. We live 10 miles away from the pit village he was born in. Many of his peers chose not to stay on at school and are still stuck in that village with only low level jobs etc.
It depends so much on parental attitudes to education and employment plus personal drive. Most of his peers didn't value education (no doubt due to family pressure/influence) and subsequently are stuck in a cycle of deprivation.
Obviously I am not saying that everyone is able to do this but we can't ignore that for some people this is a choice ie they don't want to (or can't see the point) of working at school to enable them to move out of poverty cycle.

@Misthios you are completely twisiting what I have asked.

I am absolutely for political freedom - vote for whoever you like. The most important thing is that people vote.

I do wonder though whether my friends who have been born and bred in my naice commuter village genuinely have any clue what it's like to live in a poverty stricken town and the structural barriers to better your social mobility.

I think a previous poster said it very well that the Torys for the last 14 years have all been about the individual, how are 'you' doing - not really bringing whole communities out of poverty.

David Olusoga describes it best
https://www.sotwe.com/tweet/1797249556515610929

The most intolerant and judgey posters I've come across on here in the last few months have been Labour supporters. Personal insults and being sworn at. Accused of being a posh "Tory twat" just because I criticise 1 of Labour's policies (not the parry just the policy).