To think if you've always lived in an affluent place you have no real idea about inequality in the UK?

[Pipsquiggle]

To give a bit of context, I grew up in one of the poorest boroughs in the country and now live in one of the richest.

Had a chat with a colleague today, saying I had randomly bumped into Wes Streeting yesterday and had a chat with him and wished him well. She said I could never vote for Labour, they are terrible with money.

I then said well at least they closed the inequality gap which had been completely undone and made worse by the Tories.
She asked what did I mean so I outlined the following:
Underfunding of councils in poor area which were already under the kosh
Underfunding of schools and SEN
Lack of transport infrastructure so if you don't have a car in many towns you are fucked, which in turn can lead to wage suppression
Closure of Sure start centres
Only being able to afford UP foods and the knock effects on the NHS and behaviour at schools............

I made a few more points and she admitted she just said she had no idea. I told her that if I had lived where I had live now all my life that I probably would be a Tory too but I can't ignore the poverty in my home town.

So AIBU to think that if you have only lived in an affluent area, you don't really understand how bad it is in the wider country?

‘Gender studies’, jeez, a few lazy clichés in this thread. We need Arts and Humanities students not just the studying of STEM subjects. We need people who have the ability to intellectually deliberate over questions that require explorative answers, not just people that can make something happen but don’t have the ability to question whether we ‘should’ do something to begin with!

Surely, its only a small percentage of people who grow up in an exclusively affluent bubble. Most people have a mix in their extended family. People in more affluent jobs might work with those less fortunate where they deal with social issues on a daily basis: social work, teaching, medicine, law, and so on would be well informed of societal issue even if they hadn't lived it themselves.

I think if you can afford to get into London then you have way more opportunities than the rest of the country, in terms of jobs /careers.

Having said that, I went into London today and the travel card was £40+

SE deprivation:

London (data from Age UK)
The capital has the UK’s highest rate of poverty for people of pensionable age

And
London has the highest rate of child poverty in England.
https://www.childhoodtrust.org.uk/about-us/child-poverty-in-london/

But of course there's deprivation across the country. It's not a competition. It needs to be addressed everywhere.

And yet my experience of so-called bullies is so different; maybe a sojourn in a Scottish School for speaking with an English accent, just as I had Anglicized my 'Yank' accent when the local kids mistook Californian for a Yankee accent, the product of 6yrs of DF's job there.

No worries, both before my year in Scotland as an English bitch (in reality a mongrel as dear Scottish DF returned to his homeland, broken, with only me in tow to care for him) and on return to England a year later I was still the 'Posh Bitch' for previosly daring to pass the 11+ with no more than a few weeks in the English system, no more than some past papers to tutor myself and a young August born kid newly arrived from California.

Yes, I'm not ashamed to be a smart as shit cookie who deliberately chose to fuck off the so-called trappings of achievement at all. And since the early teen bullies, by my late teens I'd learned all you do is stand up and call them out and they next want to be your 'friend'.

But the bullies nowadays aren't so obvious - mostly very mediocre people propped up by Job Titles, eating shit, giving shit and speaking in calm, measured tones.

I'm sure many here know and recognize such bullies, maybe even in themselves.

Well, it is an argument in semantics really as they do take into account contextual information, my son’s friend’s brother is at Oxford and information about his socio-economic background was absolutely taken into account.

Well exactly, state school offers have gone up because the private school children now have to compete with state children and they are not cutting the mustard! You are not going to convince me that my son’s state sixth form is average, it isn’t because it is nearly the best sixth form college in the country!

@Pipsquiggle There are high paid jobs in London but there's also loads below average and minimum wage ones. Also London has quite high unemployment levels at least for young people (perhaps because of the large population there, so a lot of competition for jobs?).

I don't think though there should be a competition between regions over who's worse off. Doesn't help or address the issues of inequality wherever someone affected by poverty lives.

I'm sorry btw for getting a bit too over invested in posting about SE deprivation. Slightly too many posts from me, sorry! I just think it's important to challenge inaccurate assumptions made by some posters (not you).

Inequality and poverty is an issue across the UK, including London and the rest of the SE. Addressing it needs a unified response instead of a kind of pitting different areas against each other.

Unemployment is also not something which is experienced the same across the UK, with the regional UK unemployment rate of the United Kingdom varying from 4.5 percent in London, and in the West Midlands, England to just 2.3 percent in South West England. During the same month, London had the highest youth unemployment rate amongst regions at 15 percent, compared with 5.5 percent in the South West.

https://www.statista.com/topics/1989/unemployment-in-the-united-kingdom/#topicOverview

Yes, I agree with you and in a very longwinded way this was what I was trying to explain about the disingenuous suggestion of London schools being turned around by the make up of the demographic as opposed to say the gentrification of areas and interventions like the London Challenge. I know that this isn’t true as I went to a London comp that is doing remarkably well now, I am seriously being told that everyone who attended the school in the 90s must have been lazy, with no ambition or drive whereas actually despite being a 00s initiative, the London challenge is to credit for much of this turnaround. Initiatives that haven’t been repeated around the country and the hidden poverty of the home counties is overlooked. To remove wealth as a big contributing factor to success in education is just far fetched!

I have live in a bubble in an affluent area, and don't really have the opportunity to meet people outside it.

However my family came to this country as refugees who were wealthy in their home country, but had everything taken away from them and subsequently came here with nothing. They worked hard for the life they rebuilt here and I never take anything for granted because of it.

Of course we do - I completely agree. We do, however, have many poor quality, expensive degree courses offered by third rate institutions which offer students very little. They need to go.

When it comes to competitions, I hate to admit it but think I might win the being long-winded competition! @Goldenbear DH tells me I can talk the hind legs off a donkey (although he's pretty good at it too).

Your posts are making good points. I don't know much about London schools and had never heard of the London Challenge so thanks for posting about it.

You are not going to convince me that my son’s state sixth form is average, it isn’t because it is nearly the best sixth form college in the country!

Yes you have mentioned before this on other threads. I know the college.

@Againname
I completely take your point about poverty in London. I just think the infrastructure in London is just so much developed than the rest of the country e.g. transport. Public transport in London is mostly great Vs the rest of the country.

So let's say you are on free school dinners and live in Peckham and great at maths - the opportunities that person has open to them by living in London are far greater than another similar child living in Burnley or Blackpool.

Better transport to get them to more great unis or colleges or more big companies that have apprenticeships.

Both will have barriers to overcome but living near a thriving city with great public transport is a huge advantage.

Access to opportunity is key

No you don’t - you don’t know me.

Actually apologies that came across unintentionally rude- 😳. I try to change loads of details so you may think you know it… who knows.

But that's not the question is it? Op is simply asking whether we beleive that people may not be fully aware of what its like for other people . And particularly if you grow up with wealth and privilege.

And that's how our system works. Having travelled around the UK a little, I realise that it is highly likely people in.thatched cottages and small villages and beautiful suburbs and green idylls.. have absokutely no iea whatsoever ehat it is like living in poverty..and why would they? They donr see it, feel it, live it, breathe ir, pr fear ot may happen to them. It's a million miles away in another world.

And altho it's yhe same the other way round, if ordinary folk really knew the half of it, there wouldn't a revolution. The abuse of power and rhe way the system is set up to privilege the few is scandalous. Its set up to make ordinary people believe that the rich and powerful are more worthy and superior in some way, and the reverse, that people somehow have worked hard and deserve their privilege amd power.

Most people getting a computer it job in London could move there. I know plenty earning less than £30,000 who have. No bank of mum snd dad. It’s clear we have a glut of some degrees and computer science is one. However always do research. What jobs are actually available and where? Bums on seats unis, with no jobs to go to, don’t help as many as they should. Some areas just don’t have grad jobs and, by the way, these are listed - Lincoln is a problem area for this for example.

Shh, the tribalists on here don't like nuance.

I have always lived in affluent areas but teach in a deprived area. It's such an eye-opener how some people live.

You've made valid points @Pipsquiggle
And, relevant you mentioned Blackpool. I posted about Jaywick in Essex. Data I saw on that said Jaywick and Blackpool were the most deprived towns in the UK.

I think the problem with London's inequality and lack of opportunity is because of the extreme housing costs there. Lots of people from London especially the less advantaged can't afford to stay there.

It's got the highest homeless rates in the UK. I don't think I could afford to live there actually, having seen the prices.

Assume there's other issues though affecting opportunities for poorer kids in London as it has high youth unemployment rates. Pensioners too, as London has the highest pensioner poverty rate in the UK.

Your posts and mine highlight several issues that need addressing.

More social housing in London (but also everywhere else because it's not only London that has housing issues).

Better public transport elsewhere. You're so right. That's really important.

And good job, education, and training opportunities including in London but definitely everywhere else too.

So let's say you are on free school dinners and live in Peckham and great at maths - the opportunities that person has open to them by living in London are far greater than another similar child living in Burnley or Blackpool

^

I lived in of those B Northern towns and can agree with the statement above

People have absolutely no clue how shit those towns are, they really don't. It's dire.

And the kids from Peckham will not end up with a Northern accent, which is another strike against you.

@coxesorangepippin

I have a feeling we're from the same place and it is a shit hole.

When I was getting married to my southern DH, we had to go to the registry office in the town centre of my 'home' town. He said 'Is everyone here disabled?' literally every group around us had a mobility scooter, wheelchair or crutches.
Later on he said he had no idea how grim or 'bleak' my home town was. This was 15 years ago, it's much worse now.

I do actually as you clearly identified it on another thread. I agree with you it ranks very highly year which is especially impressive for such a large Sixth Form College. (I am also in FE).

Oops, that’s not very good of me

I would not name it on here. Please don't be alarmed!