To be absolutely looking forward to this Tory wipeout

[Viviennemary]

It isn't just me I'm sure but I am totally gleeful at this anticipated annihilation of the Tory party. I did vote Tory last time. But absolutely can't wait to see them routed. They've been awful. How could they have Liz Truss happen. She should have been chucked out the party.

‘One leader's grandparent lived in a castle. The other leader's grandparent belonged to one of the least well-known but most successful immigrant groups the UK has ever seen.’

er, Keir’s grandfather lived ‘in a castle’ as A servant! His father worked in a tool factory, his mum was a nurse with a chronic health condition…
Old Ritchie boys grandparents may have been from British India, but his parents were a doctor and a pharmacist, he went to prep school, then Winchester ( current fees £52k) Oxbridge and became a banker, and married a billionaire…

I know who I’d trust to have a more down to earth view of what it’s like to work your way up…

A privileged position compared to most in his time and it would have been a comfortable life.

My point is Sunak (as would any child of an immigrant and despite what he says) wouldn't be immune to the struggles his grandparents and parents would have faced. His reasons for entering public service therefore shouldn't be dismissed or questioned in the same way Starmer's aren't.

Both their grandparents and parents clearly worked hard to get them to where they are and I do think both are equally worthy of their position. I wish the media highlighted their similarities a bit more!

You could make that point without mentioning that a servant lived in a castle but leaving out that they were a servant. That was a completely desperate reach.

‘A privileged position compared to most in his time and it would have been a comfortable life.’

ah yes, living as a servant to the rich. Famously a privileged position 😅😅
My grandparents were a factory worker and a mechanic. They didn’t ‘live’ in a castle but at least they weren’t servants to the Lord of the bloody manor…

I was responding to the original quoter's, in my opinion, unfair comparison. Both grandparents had their struggles, both parents worked hard in their respective professions, both men had privileged upbringings and worked hard for what they have. (Sunak had already achieved financial success, through his own merit and outside his marriage - one that the media completely forgets).

My factory worker nan and mechanic grandpa did have a comfortable life - by the standards of the day. Not enough for private schools obvs, or servants, but they did okay…

Money doesn’t equal intelligence. It was pretty widespread ignorance - mostly in older voters with no degrees voted for Brexit.

As for cycle paths. We have quite a few here. Mostly empty. Cyclists just clog up the roads. I’m actually now of the opinion that if they don’t use a cycle path (and they are clearly marked with lanes) and are in an accident, they are negligent. So no compensation unless the offending vehicle knocked them off the cycle path. My LA has spent millions on them for very few users.

And as I said, you could've done that without disingenuous comments about castles.

I would also say to call a gamekeeper within a castle ground setting a "servant" for the "Lord of the manor" in the ordinary sense of the word- is disingenuous. His life would have been more than comfortable with some excellent perks, that other "working class" people at the time would not have had. Starmer unwittingly is the beneficiary of the privilege his grandparents and parents had - financial, mental, physical, educational - to get him to where he is now, and so is Sunak.

As an aside, the number of Mumsnet posters who idealise being "servants" and "subjects" of the monarchy is astonishing.

Either way, privilege is relative but the narrative that Starmer's background is less privileged than Sunak's is one that should be done away with.

Nah. If you want to get granular enough to get into distinctions between types of servant and which roles were hardest, you need to apply that level of scrutiny and detail across the board. It certainly isn't a sustainable argument once you've described someone who was a servant in a castle as living in a castle.

You were being profoundly disingenuous and it was a poor way to make your point. There is no getting round this.

I have seen some reaching on MN the last few days, but @Grrrrr121 deserves a medal for it.

Part of my house was a former gamekeepers cottage. Sold off from the estate 110 years ago, At that time it was a country built hovel. A one up, one down. Earth floor. One chimney with a stove was the norm. It was a skilled job but essentially not much better than a farm labourer.

Not sure what Sunak’s grandparents did. However I think both families have made massive steps forward thanks to universal education and ambition. Good on them, I would like to see similar ambition in everyone now. DH’s family were farm labourers and straw plaiters also living in hand to mouth conditions. It just takes a couple of generations to move upwards.

Not sure what Sunak’s grandparents did.

His maternal grandfather worked for HMRC - he got an MBE for it back in the 80s:

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/history/rishi-sunaks-grandfather-lived-oadby-7745637

I wonder what they did before they came here? For anyone to come here, I imagine they wanted a better life.

@GrrGrrrrr121 You do realise Keir wasn't bought up in wealth and privilege. His dad worked in a factory as a toolmaker, his mom a nurse. He was one of four children. Three boys and one girl.

He was bought up in an average house in Surrey. KS was fortunate to be born and grow up of a time when he won a scholarship to the local grammar school and uni was free.

His money his mainly in the property he owns in London and the field he bought for his parents in the 90s for their donkey sanctuary after his dad retired.

He is not broke, certainly. However, he is not of the wealth and privilege this last lot of Tories in the past 14 years are

Starmer's story is one of working class people, with ability and drive, working hard and valuing education. He's done very well from an ordinary background. We don't really want people in charge who can't achieve anything, so I'm not sure why his success should be held against him.

Sunak's story is similar, I suppose, but the success started in earlier generations and the privilege that creates has been handed down.

Lol at the idea that a gamekeeper comes from privilege

Good to get the change, not good to have an enormous majority. You need a stronger opposition to the government than 5 seats or whatever pitiful numbers they’re expected to get.

One leader's grandparent lived in a castle.

You win Tory Reach Of The Week @Grrrrr121.🏆 No easy feat, in such a crowded field. Congratulations.

Yeah, I think so too.

This particular grandfather seems to have done a similar job in India - hence he got an MBE for 30 years service, despite being in the UK for 20 years by that point - so presumably 10 years service in India counted towards that.

But not sure much is publically known about the others?

Most roads have been resurfaced to be quiet roads/cycle lanes etc.
I think people forget the debt of covid and the furlough scheme which most people including labour and their voters were in favour of.

There is a bit of info here. Maternal grandfather worked for HMRC and awarded MBE as you said.

Paternal grandfather was an accountant and then worked for Kenyan colonial government.

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/blog/discoveries/rishi-sunak-family-tree

So Sunak’s forbears have achieved well and appear to be numerically bright! Obviously Gandhi studied at Oxford so we’ve always had Indian students here and some could clearly afford to come. I’m all for people improving themselves and I’m not against people who have taken opportunities to do this. It doesn’t make them bad people or wrong. I want the brightest and the best. I don’t want second rate people in charge. It’s too important and the job facing the government since Covid is almost impossible. Yes, Labour would have spent the Covid money and it’s difficult to see how, if in government, they would have done much different.

They might well have spent the covid money, but one of the massive problems around the Tories' use of the funds was the cronyism - contracts for friends, friends of cousins, cousins of friends, barmen the minister knew from his local, etc.

Blair’s government had similar issues but on a smaller scale. Cash for honours 2006 ring any bells? The Cons did need equipment in a hurry for Covid. I’m sure we all could have got sewing if we had tried. All governments letting contracts have issues!