To be absolutely looking forward to this Tory wipeout

[Viviennemary]

It isn't just me I'm sure but I am totally gleeful at this anticipated annihilation of the Tory party. I did vote Tory last time. But absolutely can't wait to see them routed. They've been awful. How could they have Liz Truss happen. She should have been chucked out the party.

I'm hoping the Tories get pushed into third place behind the LibDems. I then hope the Tories regroup, rethink, dump the far right/racist element, stop pandering to them and move back into the moderate centre right. The racist/far right can fuck off to Reform and we should start calling them out for what they are instead of bending over backwards to appease them. If the Tories did this, moved back to the centre right, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they were the first major party to call Brexit out for the stupidity it is and get a lead on Labour that way.

I really don't think they'll do as bad as predicted though, sadly.

@Kendodd I think Labour could start working more closely with the EU. Cameron had had enough of the right wing and Farage. Called their bluff and it didn’t work. Sadly for us. It might well have been a very different uk if remain had won because Farage has now been emboldened instead of defeated . The right leaning minority has too and their unreasonable views still wag the tail of the dog.

Traditionally Labour were anti EU. Very much so back in the 70s. Corbyn was the same. Hopefully Labour can see the damage and start to build bridges. There’s plenty of decent Conservatives that didn’t want Leave either. Under Boris they just got trodden on. All political parties need a trade rethink and, listening to Tobias Ellwood on Radio 5 there’s definitely a few in that party who know it was a massive mistake to leave. Sadly we have too many voters who blame everything on immigration and not being able to “.tell
it as it is”. We have too many politicians who tow the party line and won’t stand up for what’s sensible and in our best interests.,

Sadly, I think what will happen is that Reform will poll well, among the people who ditched Labour for the Tories last time and among the rank and file who elected Liz Truss leader, and the Tories will be tempted to swing right, because the LibDems are curreny occupying the centre right.

There could well be a Tory split, with some heading to Reform and some heading to the LibDems.

I genuinely think this is the beginning of the end of the Conservative Party as we know it.

Seems implausible but no doubt the same could have been said of the Liberals - from landslide in 1906 to oblivion by the 1920s.

It isn't the beginning of the end, it's the middle of the end. The beginning of the end was PM Boris Johnson.

As the saying goes: "Politicians are like nappies. They should be changed regularly, and for the same reason."

I want the Tories dead and out, because they are not fit to govern. But I have not forgotten that Labour were demanding longer and harsher lockdowns, and I dread to think what damaging measures they will come up with in the name of "climate change", such as far more 15 minute cities.

It's a choice between bad, and disastrous.

A 15 minute city is simply one where the essentials are within 15 minutes public transport away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15-minute_city

I really can't see how that's a bad thing

Why would anyone prefer Reform as the opposition? Just awful. Getting rid of a party lets another one in. Unless we want a dictatorship of course. There are decent Conservatives who really should question legislation and be a creditable opposition. Wanting a party wiped out is very foolish in my opinion. Be very careful.

It would be a good thing if we could be sure it wasn't going to be yet another way to oppress drivers, which would not affect our political overlords, but would certainly affect those who are feeling the cost of living, and the after-effects of highly damaging lockdowns. That wikipedia articles lists it under "conspiracy theories". Lots of "conspiracy theories" have come true in the last few years.

Rwanda as well you should know is beset by legal hurdles, not least the ECHR.
Sunak got through his migration bill, despite Lab etc (and the HoL) opposing it very firmly.... he ignored them... which makes my point.

Brexit was opposed by (at various times) MP's of all Parties and May had no majority, once Bojo got in, with a relatively modest majority, he did whatever he wanted, he ignored Lab etc.

@RedToothBrush I never said there was no such thing as opposition, i said that once a party gets a majority, then they can ignore the "official opposition" unless as i repeatedly have said, opposition comes from their own back benches, then they listen.

Should Lab get a huge majority, then party management of their own MPs will be very difficult.

We cannot afford 15min cities, its an impossibility... we don't have the transport, all the schools, the hospitals, the GP surgeries or even the supermarkets.

The public is slowly turning away from Green agenda's, mainly because the costs are being passed to the ordinary person, the wealthy carry on as before, using their private aircraft, their powerful cars, private swimming pools, exotic holidays.... meanwhile we face environmental surcharges and ever rising expenses.

Labour wanted earlier LDs, these, as they were in Europe, would have been shorter, Bojo was the cause of our excessive LDs.

Exactly about the ordinary person bearing the cost of net zero, while the overpaid celebs travel to conferences about climate change in their private jets. The hypocrisy.

As for lockdowns, yes indeed, earlier and shorter might have been better - as long as they were shorter. What they got so wrong was the communication, infantilising and terrifying the public, and painting themselves into a corner by swearing blind “we will do whatever it takes to save you from the virus”; which I think is why lockdowns were as long as they were; it was politically impossible to ease them until the numbers they kept bombarding us reached “acceptable” levels.

What I’m worried about is that Labour might promise “we will lock down at the first hint of a future pandemic”, without a word of the damage caused by lockdowns, or “we will do whatever it takes to achieve net zero”.

@scalt Labour want to be reelected in 2030, they will need to carry the public with them.

The burden will need to shifted towards the better off, Labour will need to do this, the Tories, as a party of the wealthy, will never do that.

We know what the Tories will do, because we know what they ve done in the past...

Its time for a new Govt.

Be careful what you wish for. Labour will very likely get in but will it be an improvement? I honestly don’t know the answer.

I think the main problem is the massive debt the U.K. has racked up and has no hope of paying off. With that problem, any party is probably screwed.

Problem with this is that even if Labour do improve things (remember how much better life was for ordinary people and public services under the last Labour government) they have the right wing press (with their billionaires owners) screaming at us constantly about how bad Labour are.

Who ran up that debt?

Debt to GDP was 65% in 2010, despite the global financial crash, its now around 98%

So we've borrowed an extra £2 trillion but have absolutely nothing to show for it.... quite a feat!

Covid & Energy support, came to less than £800 billion, so where has the rest gone???

Tories have had 14 years to show us what they can do, its now time for change.

@Kendodd V true but Labour were in for 13 years and without the GFC would have won in 2010, i'll go with another 13 years of Labour.

@RedToothBrush completely agree!

People have opinions on emotions half the time without actually listening and really thinking about what is actually being said.
I've always said, you should have to take a test to make sure you understand the manifesto before you can vote! I realise that's impractical before anyone comes at me 😉

Lol!

Just so long as everyone thinks like you, is what you really mean.

@ReRedToothBrush it's all very well talking about parliamentary committees etc holding government to account, they all look pretty toothless to me though. I remember when there was first talk of Teresa May being held in contempt of parliament, I was all 'ooh, what's going to happen here' I thought it might be like contempt of court and she'd end up in prison. Turns out, you can be held in contempt of parliament and the punishment... nothing. Politicians aren't even allowed to call out blatant lies (and even if they do 90% of the time it's without consequences). These rules were written for a time when 'honor' was a big deal and Politicians kept themselves in check, times have changed. Politicians proudly say they will break international law now and its a vote winner.
I agree, the courts still have powers to stop government acting illegally. Much to the outrage of the right wing press though.

Yes and no. I'll be thrilled to see the back of them, but it makes me strangely nervous too. I think a healthy country should have more than one functioning major party, representing different but not extreme viewpoints. And I am scared by the rise of reform and what might happen if Labour can't change things quickly and visibly (which, tbh, is fairly inevitable given how broken so many things are)

Can we please stop blaming the poor for Brexit. Well heeled home counties pensioners voted in vast number for Brexit but never get a mention because they don't fit the downtrodden, hard done by narrative.

Tell us about the state of public services in Wales under their current Labour administration.
"A blueprint for Britain" says Sir Keir.

Westminster Tories have starved all for nations of funding, with the best will in the world, if you have no money, there's not much you can do.

Yep! And cities with high poverty rates like Manchester, Liverpool and London were Remain. But yeah, there's a narrative.