Schools should close early on a Friday

[Goolagoo]

I know this will be very mixed opinion - especially for working parents .

But , I’m a teacher . Over the years I have seen so much in schools regarding PPA time and really unfair practices . I have seen , and experienced , teachers having PPA taken away due to staffing issues . I once saw a teacher have a day of PPA ( a whole day because she wasn’t having it the week after due to staffing issues so would need to plan 2 weeks work in this PPA session ) taken away - it was a Friday too so she was supposed to be having that day to plan for lessons beginning on the Monday . It was taken away due to staffing issues and she was in tears - she had plans that weekend that she had to cancel so she could plan for the week ahead ( I didn’t work in that school , she’s a teacher friend ). I have also had PPA time taken away from me before and I also have never had a class that didn’t get upset at me not being in class and having a supply or a Ta cover . Usuall work that’s done during the cover whilst class teacher is out on PPA isn’t ‘important’ work - it’s a lot of filler work , or work that doesn’t go in books . A lot of children also get anxiety over their class teacher being out and children with SEN especially suffer with this .

I read about a school that decided to close at 1pm every Friday to allow teachers to all have their PPA time . They said that they made the time back with a slightly later finish time / slightly earlier start time and they found that behaviour improved massively. Fridays are usually the end of a long week and filled with behaviour issues and this reduced along with attendance improving . I know some schools around the area do Finish at 1/2 on a Friday and I wonder if this is the reason why .

It seems like it would really make sense !

Maybe even , as TAs don’t get PPA time as they don’t plan , they could offer a kind of after school club ( until normal pick up time ) where the TAs watched the children who’s parents couldn’t do an earlier pick up time .

At the very least ppa should be properly covered by forest school, external music or sports provision. Not a poor overstretched and underpaid ta for whom it isn’t part of the job description! I think schools would benefit both teacher and kids to close early Friday, make the teaching hours more quality over quantity goving the teachers proper prep time, and the kids proper rest time and time for hobbies

Teaching 20+ years ago had very different hours to teaching today. Budget cuts mean more and more is put onto teachers.

I start working at 7.30 answering parent emails/looking at planning for next term. I often end up hoover and cleaning because we're short staffed and if a cleaner is off the classroom won't be cleaned and the children deserve better IMO.

Children arrive at 8.40.

I spend lunchtime marking some of the morning work and prepping for the afternoon.

After school I usually have a meeting or run an after school club until 4.30.

4.30-6.30 is spent running around finishing the morning's marking and getting resources ready for the next day/tidying classroom/setting up.

It's a great job but it's hard, it's tiring and I find it incredibly rude to suggest teachers only work the hours the children are there. The time with the children is the easy part!

I used to work in community support. My contracted hours were 9- 430 Monday-Thursday and every other weekend. During that time I was seeing clients (way above the caseload allocated to me due to being short-staffed), but all reports etc also had to be done as well. very often my 7.5 hour day would turn into a 12-15 hour day with me doing all the admin from home in the evenings or during my weekends "off". For all that I was paid NMW, had 28 days A/L, worked bank holidays/Christmas and, although could have TOIL it was rarely given due to the staffing shortfall (I was owed 95 hours when I left). So whilst you may think you're hard done by, it could be a lot worse. Ultimately you could find a job with better hours/conditions if the one you have is too much, like I have.

As mentioned school closes at around 12:15/12:25 in Edinburgh and a few surrounding local authorities.

I lived it! It's been in place since at least late 1980s when I was at primary school

It's changed the whole economy in these areas. Many parents work part-time with Friday being the day parents NEED off. Obviously most of these parents are mothers.

It's been in place for 40ish years though so it's working out.

McCrone agreement I'm pretty sure (to a PP who got the name almost right?) although that came later than the half days on Fridays!

Sorry I’m going to get flamed but no…I (and most other working people) have to finish at 5.30 on a Friday, I would love to finish at lunchtime or have a 4 day week. And now I have to juggle more childcare on top of that? Why?

I'm a nursery nurse and we have to do weekly, termly and yearly planning and do daily observations and write reports for parents. Do you think we get time out to do this? Or do you think every weekend/evening is spent trying to keep on top of everything. I don't finish work until 6 (unless there is a staff meeting in which case it's 8)
So I'd love a Friday afternoon off but it ain't going to happen. Do you not think it's a bit unfair on the kids who don't get to go early? And very unfair on the TA who I'm sure would also like Friday afternoon off?

Do you not just recycle the previous years lesson plan?

To an extent. But in secondary, I can't give the top set I have this year the same work as the bottom set I had last year. Timetabling can play a big part in what can be achieved - what works first thing on a Monday will induce chaos last lesson Friday, for example.

And good teaching requires a critical eye over your approach - I did it this way and then played catch up for 2 lessons cos they didn't understand it so maybe a different approach this time, for example.

And then there's the changes to example specs to contend with - MFLnis changing this year, for example and we've had good rework our schemes of work for that. .

My friends child goes to a primary school that closes at lunch time on a Friday. I think it's a good idea for teachers, so they get their planning time, it's just a problem for the the parents. I would have to arrange child care as myself and Dh work full time. My dc would be happy though!

But do most people in other jobs take their work home with them - after their 5pm finish - to continue working at home / on the weekend ?

I’m a social worker, when I was in practice 50/60 hour weeks were pretty usual, so yes other people in other jobs work very long hours too.

Not all schools in Scotland do this for reference.

I think this is down to the Curriculum for Excellence, which came in at a similar time to the (English) National Curriculum. Previously Scottish schools had better outcomes than England. Edinburgh schools have had an early finish on Fridays for decades.

Lots of other jobs with less holidays etc have people working outside their contracted hours. I officially do 9-5.30. Regularly start earlier, and log on again at 7.30/8 just to try keep on top of work.

Very blinkered view to think that only teachers do this

Random question on planning. Schools obviously follow the national curriculum. So why do lessons need planning every time in advance? If you have lesson plans for one year, surely the same plan could be used for the kids the next year ( for example the English curriculum for year 8 would be the same every year so why replan lessons instead of using the ones for the same stage the previous years)

I find it incredibly rude to suggest teachers only work the hours the children are there.

No one has suggested this.

Have a look at my previous post.

Schools have different lesson times.

Cohorts are different.

You can just pick up a lesson plan teach from it, you need to actually know your subject.

Subjects change.

Sometimes IT can help, if your students have access to it eg moodle can be set up with quizzes and drop boxes that can be automatically marked but they don't test subject knowledge or understanding.

It's sweet that you actually think teachers get 13 weeks holidays. Your children are obviously not in exam years where teachers run extra sessions at half term.

My children's school did this for exactly this reason. Early finish on Fridays, a few minutes shaved off lunch break every day. Worked really well BUT it was a secondary school so the children could make their own way home. I don't see how it could work in a primary.

For the most part the general lesson would be similar, when I last worked as a teacher (2010) detailed lesson plans were required with reference to differentiation required for individual pupils. I think it’s much harder for newly qualified teachers too trying to find their feet.

I hated the bureaucracy required. I enjoyed being in the classroom and teaching my subject but the endless paper shit was awful. So much happier now

I think it would unfairly impact lone parents the majority of whom are women so no, I don't agree

I have children at primary school that has a park opposite where parents take their children after pick up. I go to the park most days and can guarantee that after the last child has left, certainly by 3.30, all the teachers follow through the school gates, jump in their cars and leave. Perhaps they are taking their work home with them, or the school has an efficient system, but the mass exodus is quite obvious.

No I don't agree.
My child's school did this for a few years (before the government made it mandatory for kids to be in school longer)
It failed hugely and they had to have a after school club running between 12-3.30 because parents couldn't pick their kids up due to working.

Maybe if they shortened the school hols to compensate the Friday afternoon that would work otherwise no.

This is just ridiculous! What about the actual education or lack of for the children. Four days a week with already almost half the year on holiday is beyond a joke!
Scotland is falling so far below global standards as it is. Surely they should be increasing school hours not reducing them. The children are being very badly let down.

The actual solution is to have a few extra teachers employed so that all get free periods during working day

But that costs

For a while people muddled through

But now the lack of staff is getting unbearable teachers are leaving it makes things worse

The only options are more taxes form somewhere to pay more teachers or fewer education hours

This comment left my mouth pretty much on the floor. If that's what you think, no wonder you get hard done by. But I honestly don't think you are.

Yes, in most professional jobs people take work home with them or stay actually late (5pm isnt late, lol). Not all jobs, and not every night in all jobs, but the only jobs I've had where you clock out on time without a care have been entry level admin positions.

Personally, I worked until gone midnight last night. Started again at half 7 this morning (though yes, am quickly checking MN). This is fairly normal for me, and I'm part time...

It would be fine by me as a parent as long as there was after school club provision as DH and I both work. Either an after school club, sports club or some form of golden time as you say.

My MILs school got in a whole host of people to let teachers have meetings and PPA on a Friday evening. They had in WI- who taught knitting, crochet, gardening, local sports coaches from football, rugby, tennis, rounders, people to teach DIY skills, scouts/cubs leaders etc- what was on offer changed every half-term. The kids loved it- made them more rounded and ensured everyone got their PPA