Schools should close early on a Friday

[Goolagoo]

I know this will be very mixed opinion - especially for working parents .

But , I’m a teacher . Over the years I have seen so much in schools regarding PPA time and really unfair practices . I have seen , and experienced , teachers having PPA taken away due to staffing issues . I once saw a teacher have a day of PPA ( a whole day because she wasn’t having it the week after due to staffing issues so would need to plan 2 weeks work in this PPA session ) taken away - it was a Friday too so she was supposed to be having that day to plan for lessons beginning on the Monday . It was taken away due to staffing issues and she was in tears - she had plans that weekend that she had to cancel so she could plan for the week ahead ( I didn’t work in that school , she’s a teacher friend ). I have also had PPA time taken away from me before and I also have never had a class that didn’t get upset at me not being in class and having a supply or a Ta cover . Usuall work that’s done during the cover whilst class teacher is out on PPA isn’t ‘important’ work - it’s a lot of filler work , or work that doesn’t go in books . A lot of children also get anxiety over their class teacher being out and children with SEN especially suffer with this .

I read about a school that decided to close at 1pm every Friday to allow teachers to all have their PPA time . They said that they made the time back with a slightly later finish time / slightly earlier start time and they found that behaviour improved massively. Fridays are usually the end of a long week and filled with behaviour issues and this reduced along with attendance improving . I know some schools around the area do Finish at 1/2 on a Friday and I wonder if this is the reason why .

It seems like it would really make sense !

Maybe even , as TAs don’t get PPA time as they don’t plan , they could offer a kind of after school club ( until normal pick up time ) where the TAs watched the children who’s parents couldn’t do an earlier pick up time .

The more fool them! Why do people value their time so little?

Ignoring it would impact on the children as they wouldn't be getting what they need. Why would anyone who values education do that?

Get a job in prison education & you won't work Friday afternoons.

20 years post qualification if you’re still working in accounting you’re probably quite a senior accountant who still does enormous hours at least 5 times a year (each quarter + audit report).

The pay increase is significant though.

So not comparable to a teacher who actually pays to train and unless they go into leadership will not be getting significant pay increase. 20 years in, I’m on a 0.8 contract, work 45 hours a week and earn £33,000. I know many of us are in the same position, but it’s so hard, working long hours, the guilt of neglecting your own family and still struggling to pay the mortgage. I know it’s not just teachers and feel empathy for all others in the same situation, I want better for all of us.

I'm usually one of the first to defend teachers on here, because I know it isn't an easy job at all and I have a huge amount of respect for the many teachers I know, but honestly, you really don't do your profession any favours with posts like this.

Comments like this make you seem totally ignorant of what goes on in the wider world of work, and people therefore become less inclined to believe what you say when you raise what are probably genuine concerns around workload.

I'm not saying it's right or something to aspire to, but it's very, very common in salaried roles for people to work late/take work home/do stuff over the weekends etc. I have done this in every role I've had since graduating over 30 years ago, and I have never been paid a penny in overtime - it has just been expected that you work the hours necessary to get the job done. And that can often be a lot of hours for not very much pay.

I absolutely support the case for better terms and working conditions for teachers, but this kind of exceptionalism simply switches people off.

Are children getting what they need now?

It would take less than a term for all hell to break loose, and then changes that have been needed for years can finally be made.

Be that teachers actually being paid for the hours they do, thus making it a more attractive career and leading to more teachers. Offstead will have to cut out the shit making teachers lives easier, more TA and pastoral support, better SEN provision and a curriculum that actually benifits the kids.

As long as teachers quietly keep picking up the pieces and bridging the gaps the government and LA's will continue to wring them dry.

Same as all these unpaid/low paid internships where young people work like dogs for a chance of a job. If the work needs doing then people should be paid a fair wage for the time needed to do it.

My area of Scotland doesn’t finish early on a Friday although are looking at doing it for secondary school pupils letting them finish at 1.30 or something like that. Not doing it for primary as we are rural and sadly lacking childminders/wrap around/nurseries etc. my own childminder collects kids already from a different primary school so cannot get mine from theirs should they finish early on a Friday and both sets of parents work. I work in nursing and DH works away so we’d be pretty screwed if they did it to the primary

I'm afraid that's far too simplistic and naive. I don't work in England so not subject to Ofsted scrutiny but that doesn't lessen the workload.
Many children are definitely not getting what they need now but that doesn't mean we give up trying our best for them.

Just wanted to prove a point. Pharma worker here. I’ve just put kids to bed. I’m back at my desk for an urgent project we just found out about. It’s Friday, it’s late… 9pm but that’s what happens when you work with global colleagues. This isn’t unusual and no… I’m not getting paid for it.

Yup me too. I'm in consultancy - we have a big project due on Thursday. I've already done about 4 hours today even though I don't work Fridays (lol).

I tried to just watch some Netflix, but it's too much on my mind, so I'm back on the laptop. There'll be plenty of hours put in over the weekend.

I really don't get the "my job is hard so yours should be too" attitude. It doesn't help anyone.
Anyway, after reading another post on here I think I might quit teaching and go into the cat-sitting business! Easy money for a stress free life! 😜

I don't think anyone is saying that. Just that working over one's hours definitely isn't unusual in salaried jobs.

Exactly this.

I've lost count of the times teacher friends have posted on Facebook about working in the evening like it is something so unique and special to their job.

Meanwhile I often work long hours and so do all my colleagues. I just don't see the need to post about it. I knew what I was signing up for when I took the role.

Obviously I don't know what you do for a living but maybe those posting are just a bit sick of being constantly subject to public scrutiny or having people regularly commenting on how easy they have it (or posting on mumsnet about what time they leave the car park) and need to vent. Just a thought.

Fuuuck I can't even read all of this. Why do teachers think they're such a special case? Stop being a martyr. We all work hard.

The thing is, you might not have it easy, but nobody does. You're nit more hard done by than the rest of us.

Except I don't think I am "hard done by". I've never said I was. I was commenting on how other people might feel. You've actually just reinforced what I was saying earlier.
I actually enjoy my job. I appreciate it is very stressful at times but I fully appreciate my salary and my holidays.
I'm not bitter about anyone who has it easier or earns more than me and I certainly wouldn't wish anyone to have it harder or earn less. I chose my career because education is important to me and I love working with children. The positives far outweigh the negatives (for me).

Yes they do

Quite comparable. You earn the equivalent of a £41k FTE - that's basically the same as you can expect for an accountant salary outside of London who doesn't move out of doing accounting (into financial oversight etc). I don't disagree that it's a really tough job and the pay seems a bit shit, but the teacher exceptionalism is silly. You aren't neglecting your family any more than any of the rest of us are.

@ClaudiaWankleman why are you making comparisons because I’m not. I don’t think any of us should be neglecting our children and our own mental health, I don’t think working 45 hours part time or 50-60 hours full time is something anyone should be doing, and unfortunately my children absolutely are suffering for it. They get a raw deal in the amount of time they have with me, I miss events at school and nursery, I struggle to do homework and activities with them as I can’t spare the time. I’m sure lots of people are the same but I’m saying it’s not good for any of us. Not that I have it worse.

Do you think teachers finish when the kids do ? Eg 3.15 pm ??

You made the comparison when you said 'So not comparable then...'.

I agree teachers need the time and tools to do their jobs, and that taking work home regularly isn't acceptable.

It's certainly a management issue, I know a few teachers at different schools who don't have these struggles and only occasionally take small amounts of work or marking home.

However, finishing early on Fridays (or any day) is only realistic for a small percentage of families. The reality is, when there are 2 working parents (or a working single parent) it's simply not an option and could end with parents loosing jobs and children suffering for it.

It's not the fault of teachers that working hours and school hours are so out of sync or that it's not possible for one parent to stay at home. Equally it's not the fault of children or parents that some school are so badly managed.
But that's the state of the world, it's not a race to the bottom and collectively can we support each other instead of actively trying to put groups against each other.

Only because you compared a trainee accountant with an experienced teacher. I find most teacher tend not to compare , it’s other people who constantly try to. If you want teachers who are not completely burnt out by the system and are able to complete the job properly something needs to change. The same may well be true for other professions. I don’t comment as I am less informed in that area. People say teachers are not saying anything about the failings in the system but when they do they are told they are moaning. It’s bizarre really when all we want is the best education for kids, which is definitely best delivered by not exhausted teachers.