Schools should close early on a Friday

[Goolagoo]

I know this will be very mixed opinion - especially for working parents .

But , I’m a teacher . Over the years I have seen so much in schools regarding PPA time and really unfair practices . I have seen , and experienced , teachers having PPA taken away due to staffing issues . I once saw a teacher have a day of PPA ( a whole day because she wasn’t having it the week after due to staffing issues so would need to plan 2 weeks work in this PPA session ) taken away - it was a Friday too so she was supposed to be having that day to plan for lessons beginning on the Monday . It was taken away due to staffing issues and she was in tears - she had plans that weekend that she had to cancel so she could plan for the week ahead ( I didn’t work in that school , she’s a teacher friend ). I have also had PPA time taken away from me before and I also have never had a class that didn’t get upset at me not being in class and having a supply or a Ta cover . Usuall work that’s done during the cover whilst class teacher is out on PPA isn’t ‘important’ work - it’s a lot of filler work , or work that doesn’t go in books . A lot of children also get anxiety over their class teacher being out and children with SEN especially suffer with this .

I read about a school that decided to close at 1pm every Friday to allow teachers to all have their PPA time . They said that they made the time back with a slightly later finish time / slightly earlier start time and they found that behaviour improved massively. Fridays are usually the end of a long week and filled with behaviour issues and this reduced along with attendance improving . I know some schools around the area do Finish at 1/2 on a Friday and I wonder if this is the reason why .

It seems like it would really make sense !

Maybe even , as TAs don’t get PPA time as they don’t plan , they could offer a kind of after school club ( until normal pick up time ) where the TAs watched the children who’s parents couldn’t do an earlier pick up time .

What if you don't work a Friday? How does that work out?

It's already a thing in Scotland. Maybe a review should be done (perhaps it already has beeen) of the benefits to teachers, pupils and parents as well as the negatives.

My kids start school at 8.45am and finish at 3.05pm , on Fridays they finish at 12.20. I work part time and am self employed so have avoided working on Fridays but if I must dh will take his non working day then. Lots of parents I know either work part time (so not on a Friday), or rely on grandparents, other family members or childcare to cover the gap. Parents with older children often wfh on that day.

Mine don't do any sports or activities on Fridays. By time they get home and have lunch there isnt long before 3pm anyway.I find it pointless and would prefer they were in school.

I was in totally agreement with you until I saw your comment about TAs. I am a TA here and so far this week, I have been dragged out of my class and have taught Year 1 alone and on Friday I will teach Year 6 alone.

TAs do not plan? In our school we each have a RWI group which we have to manage and a lot of interventions. We have to plan these in our own time as no one gives us the recognition that we are doing these things.

I am glad I am not your TA.

The McCrone agreement had nothing to do with Friday afternoons. We had Friday afternoons off way back in the early 1990s and the McCrone agreed came in after that. The school hours were 35 hours per week before the agreement and are still that now. What changes was that staff were given prep time during the day(which is not really noticeable in a secondary school and often covered by assemblies and “specialist” teachers in primary)

What's PPA?

I've worked as a ta so I see how hard teachers work.

The 330-530/6pm period is usually used for marking/setting up resources/targets for individual students etc.

But don't teacher do planning in hols? The school I worked at a week of each hols was planning time for the next half term. Then a week of Xmas, Easter and 4 weeks of summer were actual holidays.

Ppa time was used to catch up/admin .

Well I think you're going to have to come up with something better to cover the hours shortfall with the kids than 'dump them with the TA'

Has it?

I went to school in the eighties 9-330 with an hour lunch and 2 x 30 min breaks.

Ds goes 830-330 with 45 min lunch a 15 min break and daily mile walk (lasts about 15 min)

Holidays are exactly the same.

I would hate for all my PPA to be bunched together on a Friday - I’d collapse and do nothing! On my full teaching days I am absolutely shattered, 5 x classes of 30/33 teenagers, moving classrooms, break and lunch duties, meetings, briefings - days are hard enough already, a day with 1 PPA at least provides some breathing space.

Also, my son is in wraparound from 7.30-5 4 days a week. I would hate for him to be in wraparound more.

There's always one !

But do most people in other jobs take their work home with them - after their 5pm finish - to continue working at home / on the weekend ?

I’m not sure why the pile on for @Itsmyshadow here.

She is clearly stating that teachers finish the teaching day at 3:15 so can’t the two hours after that be used for planning?

I often work into the evening it’s part and practice of many jobs and only get 4 weeks holiday a year.
I don’t think you are asking the right question here.
why does every teacher need time to plan all lessons and mark work all the time? In this day and age there must be economies that could be made? Is there a nation wide data base of lesson plans? Or at least lesson plans across each local authority or school for teachers to pull from? Why can’t AI be used to mark work? Or write reports giving the highlights - so teachers mainly need to teach and that’s it? Etc etc. In any case the teaching day of 8:45-3:15 is long over due a reform, as is 13 weeks holiday a year. Sorry but this was designed when one parent was permanently at home and just isn’t the case for most families anymore. In my opinion, which I know it won’t be most peoples - schools should match the working routine. 8:30-5:30 every day. The Friday could be teachers day off and a focus on extra curricular activities such a sport/ clubs etc etc. would allow families to manage properly and would also give teachers a mental break, having an extra day off and limiting extra work OOH.

Yes!! Is that a serious question?!

Same! ⬆️

TAs cover all PPA (& any other Teacher absence!) in my school & my current slot is Friday afternoon.....it's most definitely the shitty end of the stick! And it's NOT 'filler' work - it's proper curriculum lessons! 🤦‍♀️

I hardly know any teachers that are able to actually plan lessons after school. It’s taken up mainly with marking, printing resources for the next day, staff meetings, other tasks that are given e.g filling in forms etc, sorting out any issues that happened that day.

@Jellycatspyjamas

What's the contract time in England then. I hear much moaning about working, which is hard to sympathise when you are working close to minimum wage 45 hours a week yourself (but contracted for 30 no overtime paid, non profit org)

My daughter finishes at 11.50 on a Friday and my other child half an hour later. To be honest it’s a pain with childcare/work and they spend too much time on screens on a Friday afternoon.

⬆️ Same! I teach tons & also have various intervention groups to plan for etc - no PPA time - all done during early start, late finish, lunch hour (all unpaid time!) or at home!!

Exactly! Filler lessons do not exist. So far this week I have covered, English reading, English writing, Maths, History and Geography. It's not like we cover lessons and let the children colour all day!

My DS old school do this.

8:35 - 3:30 Mon-Thurs and finished Fridays at 12.

We’ve moved now and his new school is 8:30 - 3.00 everyday. He was gutted at first 😁 but used to it now.

To be fair he used to get home later on Fridays than the other days, as they’d all go play football for the afternoon, or just mooch about together in the park or whatever

This.

I get to school at 7.30 and done get paid till 9. It's a good day when I leave at 4.30 and I only get paid till 3. Oh and thats not forgetting working during our unpaid lunch hour.

So you worked 8-5 ? sounds completely normal to me. In hospital medicine that would be referred to as a " short day". You do that for 39 weeks a year ? Those are easy hours for a ft job by anybody's standard.

Think it's a great idea and would really help schools out with budgeting issues.

I don’t want to argue, and I realise my initially comment was short and could have been taken quite provocatively (not my intention), but yes, lots of people in other jobs work longer than the 9-5. I often work in the evening to get things done to keep on top of things. On my office days I’m out of the house from 7:30 to 7 and working on the train to and from work.