Schools should close early on a Friday

[Goolagoo]

I know this will be very mixed opinion - especially for working parents .

But , I’m a teacher . Over the years I have seen so much in schools regarding PPA time and really unfair practices . I have seen , and experienced , teachers having PPA taken away due to staffing issues . I once saw a teacher have a day of PPA ( a whole day because she wasn’t having it the week after due to staffing issues so would need to plan 2 weeks work in this PPA session ) taken away - it was a Friday too so she was supposed to be having that day to plan for lessons beginning on the Monday . It was taken away due to staffing issues and she was in tears - she had plans that weekend that she had to cancel so she could plan for the week ahead ( I didn’t work in that school , she’s a teacher friend ). I have also had PPA time taken away from me before and I also have never had a class that didn’t get upset at me not being in class and having a supply or a Ta cover . Usuall work that’s done during the cover whilst class teacher is out on PPA isn’t ‘important’ work - it’s a lot of filler work , or work that doesn’t go in books . A lot of children also get anxiety over their class teacher being out and children with SEN especially suffer with this .

I read about a school that decided to close at 1pm every Friday to allow teachers to all have their PPA time . They said that they made the time back with a slightly later finish time / slightly earlier start time and they found that behaviour improved massively. Fridays are usually the end of a long week and filled with behaviour issues and this reduced along with attendance improving . I know some schools around the area do Finish at 1/2 on a Friday and I wonder if this is the reason why .

It seems like it would really make sense !

Maybe even , as TAs don’t get PPA time as they don’t plan , they could offer a kind of after school club ( until normal pick up time ) where the TAs watched the children who’s parents couldn’t do an earlier pick up time .

It's meant to be to allow children to pursue sports and hobbies on Friday afternoons.

Oir high schools run various clubs and activities on a Friday afternoon for kids who want them, most kids go home but the option is there for extra curricular activities on the school grounds.

This is going to be a very unpopular opinion but… I think a lot of primary school teachers have an unrealistic expectation about how the world of work actually works. You knew someone who had to work over the weekend because of something coming up on a Friday? That’s a normal part of working life!

I’m a Civil Servant and many times something has happened on Friday which has meant working until late at night and over the weekend.

DH is a surgeon and he goes into work every Saturday without fail to personally check on the patients he operated on on the Friday, but he’s only contracted to work one weekend in eight. When he gets home at 7 or 8pm he looks over his operating list for the next day and does his admin.

I’m not saying it’s right that people have to work much longer than their contracted hours but it is part of modern life if you want to have a career rather than a job.

My friend is primary school teacher and complains of finishing late when she gets home at 6pm! That’s early or at least normal time for most people. Having to do occasional work at the weekend isn’t unusual. I think if she changed careers she’d get a huge shock.

I think what we are saying is that in a normal working day of 9-6 (very few jobs are 9-5 nowadays!) - or 8.30-5.30 to allow for the start time - there is teaching time for 6-7 hours of it, plus maybe one day a week to run an after-school club, but that still leaves a couple of hours at least four times a week to do the admin parts of the job such as planning and marking.
That 8 hours is already a full working day per week, so it seems peculiar to imply that teachers already have to do these things entirely in their 'own time'.

Of course, the admin burden on teachers has famously steadily increased so it is easy to see that there might be more to do than would fit into 8 hours, hence the overflow and need to take things home at the weekend - but that doesn't seem to be because you only get half a teaching day blocked off for the tasks too, that is an additional chunk on top of the afterschool time which is already part of the job?

@HouseofHills Do you get paid overtime for extra hours worked?

Generally (across many industries) lower responsibility jobs paid by the hour get overtime, but salaried staff are paid "to get the job done" regardless of how long that takes.

The burden of planning, marking and admin does seem to have increased very significantly over the last 15 years or so.

Why is that and is it strictly necessary? In ROI for example, teachers seem to be under a lot less pressure with this stuff, yet outcomes for children are better.

The kids go at three or half three. Most jobs are till five or six why can't you do it in that time. Parents need to work and they work longer hours than teachers most of them so no you are being massively unreasonable.

I suppose my issue would be for working parents. There is no breakfast club, after school care is very limited. I do core hours 9-3 then make up time in evenings. Possibly sports on a Friday afternoon would be a good idea?

Quite.

The number of times I've cancelled evening plans, weekend plans, taken my laptop on holiday with me (including my honeymoon 😳). I've lost count. Usually for no extra pay (or toil)., and in a variety of jobs. I've known other people who technically get TOIL, but have accrued so much that it's impractical to take it (ie would mean everyone taking 6 months off).

I'm certainly not saying teaching isn't hard work, but that working evenings and weekends is pretty standard in many jobs. Often for no extra pay.

I live in an area in Scotland where they do that and am a trustee of a children’s and families charity - it’s a huge issue tbh, it’s a real barrier to work in lower income families.

OOSC is expensive and a half day of it on Friday bumps the cost up so much.

My kids have always had one day that finishes early in secondary school. Randomly a Tuesday with the first school. Now a Friday with a different school.

The public sector are incredibly lazy and self indulgent, I doubt they would last a week in the private sector. Always wanting to do less and less, no wonder so many schools are failing if this is the work ethic!

Most of us work 45- 55 hours a week with four weeks holiday per year and are not whinging at all. Jesus wept.

Great for high schools - works very well at our high school. The afternoon is spent in extra curriculars or studying.

Not acceptable for primary schools.

Very simply working parents can't be burdened with the cost of an extra half day of childcare or lost working hours each week.

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I would be happy with this. My autistic 10 year old gets upset and self harms when his teacher does her PPA time. I would love to just keep him off then but I'm not allowed.

It's unusual for salaried roles to be paid overtime.

@NappyBag @EatTheGnome

Why should children lose 2 hours of education to resolve an underfunding crisis?

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They don't. The other 4 days are adjusted. Total teaching time is the same.

No of course not!

As long as all employers gave their employees Friday afternoons off fully paid so they could pick their kids up from school then yeah, I guess it could work. Otherwise I’d be in trouble letting my 3 primary aged children stay at home alone on a Friday afternoon, because I can’t afford to drop my hours (not that my employer would allow me to, even if I could).

Haha somebody doesn’t understand the reality of teaching… I did 7.30 - 5.30 for years until I quit. I was a great teacher but the job was underpaid for the level of abuse I got and the permanent level of exhaustion that I felt.

But I bet you miss the extended holiday! 4 weeks versus 13 weeks minimum for doing the same hours the rest of us work without complaint.

Lol have you ever worked in the public sector? Go and work in the NHS if you think it’s so indulgent. Junior doctors would love a chilled week of only having to work 45-55 hours.

My dh works 80 hours a week. The work ethic is dire on here.

Yes 😆 I barely know a job that doesn’t. And nobody else gets 13 weeks leave a year either 😆

Teaching is a hard job, for sure, but so are 85% of jobs that contain educated / qualified workers…

Most professional jobs are ‘hard’ isn’t that the very point of them!! Not everyone and his dog can do them….