Schools should close early on a Friday

[Goolagoo]

I know this will be very mixed opinion - especially for working parents .

But , I’m a teacher . Over the years I have seen so much in schools regarding PPA time and really unfair practices . I have seen , and experienced , teachers having PPA taken away due to staffing issues . I once saw a teacher have a day of PPA ( a whole day because she wasn’t having it the week after due to staffing issues so would need to plan 2 weeks work in this PPA session ) taken away - it was a Friday too so she was supposed to be having that day to plan for lessons beginning on the Monday . It was taken away due to staffing issues and she was in tears - she had plans that weekend that she had to cancel so she could plan for the week ahead ( I didn’t work in that school , she’s a teacher friend ). I have also had PPA time taken away from me before and I also have never had a class that didn’t get upset at me not being in class and having a supply or a Ta cover . Usuall work that’s done during the cover whilst class teacher is out on PPA isn’t ‘important’ work - it’s a lot of filler work , or work that doesn’t go in books . A lot of children also get anxiety over their class teacher being out and children with SEN especially suffer with this .

I read about a school that decided to close at 1pm every Friday to allow teachers to all have their PPA time . They said that they made the time back with a slightly later finish time / slightly earlier start time and they found that behaviour improved massively. Fridays are usually the end of a long week and filled with behaviour issues and this reduced along with attendance improving . I know some schools around the area do Finish at 1/2 on a Friday and I wonder if this is the reason why .

It seems like it would really make sense !

Maybe even , as TAs don’t get PPA time as they don’t plan , they could offer a kind of after school club ( until normal pick up time ) where the TAs watched the children who’s parents couldn’t do an earlier pick up time .

It is a requirement in schools that follow teachers pay and condition. It is not a requirement in all schools.

Yes I’m sure it is, but I think mainly in terms of higher SEN and more disruptive pupils.

I don’t believe my dad (primary school) got given any PPA time and he certainly never had a TA.

He also ran the school orchestra and put on a Christmas and Summer concert every year pretty much single handedly and so whilst I don’t think he had the behavioural challenges, he certainly worked a ridiculous number of hours.

We also went camping in Europe for 5 weeks every summer so not all bad, whereas my kids spend most of the summer in holiday clubs.

Our school finishes early on Tuesday, at 2:15, but it's 3 Tier High School, so they are 13+, so no worries about childcare

I’m not teacher bashing, I have even more respect for them since my kids started school. I know it’s a really tough job.

If you're not teacher bashing, why the snarky remark about finishing early every day, when you claim to know that teachers do not generally finish early even when the kids do?

Sorry not read the full thread but my daughters school finishes early
on a Friday (West Midlands) if both parents, or one parent from a single parent household, work, then you need a letter from your work and they do Friday afternoon club till 3.15 ran by the asc workers (who are all teaching assistants at the school)

Yes I’m sure it is, but I think mainly in terms of higher SEN and more disruptive pupils.

You think that do you? Perhaps teachers might be better placed to judge the facts of the matter. I've been a teacher for 30 years. Yes, behaviour and SEN numbers have changed. That is NOT what has driven the massive increase in workload.

what’s PPA ? not all schools in scotland finish early on fridays

I meant they finish with the kids much earlier than an average working day, so doesn’t that give the planning time?

Personally, I wouldn't mind a shorter Friday in schools. It's a long week for many kids. But I think it would pose significant practical issues.

My DD’s school hours are 8.30-3.20 with a shortish lunch break Mon-Thurs and 8.30-12.15 on a Friday (consistent through primary and secondary school). I love the chance to spend some time with her on a Friday afternoon but I appreciate I have the privilege of being able to work compressed hours to free up the Friday.

I meant they finish with the kids much earlier than an average working day, so doesn’t that give the planning time?

Yes, but not enough. I'm a secondary teacher. I'm at school from 8 - 5:30 Monday to Friday, often take more work home after that and work Sunday mornings. Many people do more than me.

A lot longer than that too, hence why teachers take work home over the weekends. I’m not a teacher anymore, the workload expected was ridiculous, now I clock off and anytime after that is my time.

Teachers don’t have it easy at all

Where will the money come from to feed the children after their parents have to quit their jobs to look after them on Fridays?

This. At my DS’s school, there is a sports coach who covers all PPA time. Kids get decent PE lessons and teachers get their PPA time. It seems to work really well - but I suppose many schools don’t have the budget for it.

I want to say it's called the McGlone agreement but I might be making that bit up.

Non-contact hours in Scotland is known as McCrone time, after the agreement of the same name - you were nearly right.

Where will the money come from to feed the children after their parents have to quit their jobs to look after them on Fridays?

Where I am it’s mainstream high schools that have a half day on Fridays, primary and ASN schools follow a normal school day so much less impact in terms of childcare.

Yes to subject content to some extent. There are long term plans for the year (easy to download), medium (termly) and short term ( each lesson) plans. Planning requirements are now really exacting. Its not just writing up what you do but why you are doing it . You can't just get out the plan from last years summer term = Incas. Wk 1 maps and timeline. WK 2 - Homes etc You need to detail exactly what and why you are doing this.

You need to say in detail what you hope to get out of the lesson ( aims differentiated for any SEN, higher levels, EAL etc) and how your assess whether those aims are met. So in primary even something obvious like using scissors is recorded as fine motor skills as well as getting a nice picture for their books.

All this is often in a prescribed font on a online system that is often glitchy or in my old school really hard to get into. So if you got interrupted it would take 5 minutes just to find where you got up to last time.

Edinburgh here. I hate it. It means I can only work part time, which is deemed so unprofessional in my industry, hampering my career progression. They squeeze the learning in by squeezing lunch hours so the kids either eat their lunch properly or get time in the playground, there isn’t enough time to do both. And isn’t lunch break important socialisation skills?

I wish I’d put my child in private school. On reflection the extra salary and career progression from working full time would probably have covered the fees. There just isn’t the after school provision to make it work. But by the time you realise this your career has already stalled. I enjoy the extra time with my child of course I do, but it’s sad that one parent has to give up their career goals.

And Scotland has far worse educational outcomes than England so I don’t think we should be looking there for any great ideas to export.

It was the McCrone agreement and it wasn't to shorten teachers' working hours but to reduce class contact time. Inevitably it meant less hours spent with children and more hours spent doing paperwork and unnecessary bureaucracy. The EIS is pushing to reduce class contact time even further to 'help reduce teacher workload' but I don't believe for a minute that would be the case and I really don't think less time with pupils is a good thing. That's kind of the whole reason most of us become teachers in the first place!

Teachers say 'planning' for shorthand for all the jobs they have to do. I spend very little time actually 'planning' individual lesson but for a maths lesson alone I might need to print off 6 different sheets (that have to be found, checked, downloaded etc then trimmed and sometimes put into books ready). That's one subject out of 6 in a day. That alone takes time. I might have to fill in a medical questionnaire regarding a child in my class or follow up on training I've been on or write a letter or do a risk assessment for a trip. There are these sorts of jobs to do every day. That's what takes the time. Kids leave at half 3, the last ones not picked up til more like 3.45. Working 8-5 only leaves you with about 2.5 hours to get loads of small jobs done.

None of that even goes into rewriting curricula for Ofsted btw. I have created documents of about 50 pages per subject, and I lead 3 subjects. That's all (supposedly) done in those 2.5 hours + PPA.

In the Lothians (Edinburgh area) schools close at lunch on a Friday but not for PPA. PPA is at a different time in the week. Your suggestion would be a good idea but may result in jobs number cuts.

The kids around here finish at lunchtime on Wednesdays and it works well.

I should add, finishing at lunchtime on a Friday is a compressed week. 45 min lunch; 8.50-3.15; 8.50-12.30 Friday

My daughter is at a Jewish school and it closes early on Fridays. They do a longer afternoon on Thursdays to compensate though.

@soundsys I'm a primary teacher. I'm also a mum of three of my own (one Recpetion primary, two secondary). If my kids finish at lunchtime on Fridays, what do I do?