Schools should close early on a Friday

[Goolagoo]

I know this will be very mixed opinion - especially for working parents .

But , I’m a teacher . Over the years I have seen so much in schools regarding PPA time and really unfair practices . I have seen , and experienced , teachers having PPA taken away due to staffing issues . I once saw a teacher have a day of PPA ( a whole day because she wasn’t having it the week after due to staffing issues so would need to plan 2 weeks work in this PPA session ) taken away - it was a Friday too so she was supposed to be having that day to plan for lessons beginning on the Monday . It was taken away due to staffing issues and she was in tears - she had plans that weekend that she had to cancel so she could plan for the week ahead ( I didn’t work in that school , she’s a teacher friend ). I have also had PPA time taken away from me before and I also have never had a class that didn’t get upset at me not being in class and having a supply or a Ta cover . Usuall work that’s done during the cover whilst class teacher is out on PPA isn’t ‘important’ work - it’s a lot of filler work , or work that doesn’t go in books . A lot of children also get anxiety over their class teacher being out and children with SEN especially suffer with this .

I read about a school that decided to close at 1pm every Friday to allow teachers to all have their PPA time . They said that they made the time back with a slightly later finish time / slightly earlier start time and they found that behaviour improved massively. Fridays are usually the end of a long week and filled with behaviour issues and this reduced along with attendance improving . I know some schools around the area do Finish at 1/2 on a Friday and I wonder if this is the reason why .

It seems like it would really make sense !

Maybe even , as TAs don’t get PPA time as they don’t plan , they could offer a kind of after school club ( until normal pick up time ) where the TAs watched the children who’s parents couldn’t do an earlier pick up time .

One would hope that, teaching being a vocational position, the value comes from the knowledge that they are making a difference? That’s what I’ve always understood to be what makes a good teacher a good teacher.

Good for your friend who works in PRU, I’m sure she looks for the positives in her work over and beyond what goes into her pay packet every month. Why did your neighbour hand her notice in?

One would hope that, teaching being a vocational position, the value comes from the knowledge that they are making a difference?

Thats a shit position to take and one that justifies poor pay and conditions for professionals perceived to be in vocations - teaching, nursing, social work - where staff are also predominantly female. You can want to make a difference and still expect reasonable salary and decent working conditions.

Still not comparable. The senior lifeguard has 30 years experience so of course he earns more money. He is also in a rather niche job in the grand scheme of things. Not very many lifeguard openings around the country for all those teachers who feel hard done by financially to suddenly say ‘it’s ok, I’ll just go and be a lifeguard instead’.

I’m glad your grandson has lined up more seasonal work for Christmas and Easter. Seasonal. Not 52 weeks of the year.

Why do you think teachers finish early? Earlier than what?

I was responding to the question posed about understanding what motivates people and makes them feel valued. Making a difference motivates most people, and gives them a sense of value. Add to that good pay, great pensions, great holidays. I just DON’T get the moaning.

So we should pay doctors NMW? Nurses? Police Officers? What do you do? Do you care if you make enough to have a home, food etc or is job satisfaction enough?

My neighbour is fed up of the pressure and the workload, she has young kids and would like some quality time with them.

My friend who works in the PRU teaches very small groups and has another teacher or TA with her, maybe that reduces prep and admin.

Why don't you do it? If it is so great it seems odd that you don't.

That’s a reach! No one is talking about paying anyone NMW in those jobs, teaching or otherwise! I said feeling valued AND earning a good salary should be enough to motivate people!

It isn't seasonal, he could stay on fulltime, his boss would like him to. Why do you think he'd earn more when he's worked 30 years when earlier you said GS would never earn more if he stayed in the job.

There are roles for senior lifeguards, lifeguards go on to be pool managers, trainers, manage leisure centres. GS has seriously considered it and considered adding swimming teacher to increase his earnings. There are pools all round the country, leisure centres, gyms like David Lloyds, hotels.

So you agree that salary level comes into it?

That’s a childish question and you know it!

Teachers don’t earn NMW so salary level is irrelevant.

Because you said the senior lifeguard runs training courses etc etc. That’s a level (or many) up from a gap year student sitting on a step ladder watching people in a pool that he only took a week to train for. He’s also taken 30 years to earn more money.

Yes there are lots of lifeguard roles around the country, but we’re hardly talking teacher numbers are we!

I said feeling valued AND earning a good salary should be enough to motivate people!

Few of us feel valued. A good salary is a subjective thing but I'm a single parent with no support from my ex. As a teacher, I was always eligible for tax credits. So it's not a good salary, is it?

I don't understand why you think lifeguarding is so seasonal. Mist lifeguard jobs are in indoor pools which are open 7 days a week, and for 6 of those days are probably open 8-8 if not longer.

I think so. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t!

The Friday lunchtime closing has a big impact where I live in Scotland, mostly on women of course, as they are the ones doing the childcare. For SAHM or those with relatives nearby, it's fine. For the rest, it can affect their job search and their earnings. Our school had a Friday afterschool club, but then of course you get kids not wanting to be there because they are stuck in school while many of their friends have left.

I'm sure I'll get responses from the "school is not childcare" brigade, but that's my view as a parent.

Oh my god really? We’re getting ourselves tied up in knots about life guarding..

if we must, your grandson is temping. He will attract a higher temp salary than if he was full time. I very much doubt the full time role would offer him 50 hour weeks. If it did, it would be one of a very few roles in that company.
His temp salary is reflective of the fact that he likely won’t have holiday pay, sick pay, pension payments, private health etc etc. A seasonal, temporary, low skilled, scarce job is NOT relevant to the conversation about teachers’ renumeration. I worked in factories to earn money before going to university. I was temping and earning way above NMW. The full time members of staff earned far less pro rata. Please stop.

I don't know where you've got your information on nurses salaries from but they do not earn £22k, unless they are part time. Starting point of band 5 for a nurse is £28k

social workers earn 27k and they don’t get all the (apparently unpaid!) holidays.

Where the hell are you, newly qualified social workers where I am start on £34-37k.

This is according to gov.uk not “where I am” - I haven’t done a survey of social workers in my area!

You’re right sorry I was looking at outdated info - it’s 27.5k. I’m not sure why teachers think they should get paid over 5k more than nurses and social workers, who work just many hours but 12 months of the year!

Yes, I think that's very normal in professional jobs.

God this thread is so depressing. I can’t believe how lucky we are with our school. We actually already do two longer days , so all children learn something like 8/9 weeks more maths and English over their time years 7-11. Not a single hint of reducing time, but giving more within the same funding envelope. It IS doable. But it seems so many schools are getting it wrong.

I find it astonishing how many teachers don't realise it is normal in most professional careers to do a lot of long days /evening and weekend working or get calls when on holiday.

Do lots of teachers marry other teachers /non professionals?

My sister is a teacher and is well aware she has way better work life balance than her husband, who works many weekends to meet deadlines.for his work (public sector, similar salary to her).