Schools should close early on a Friday

[Goolagoo]

I know this will be very mixed opinion - especially for working parents .

But , I’m a teacher . Over the years I have seen so much in schools regarding PPA time and really unfair practices . I have seen , and experienced , teachers having PPA taken away due to staffing issues . I once saw a teacher have a day of PPA ( a whole day because she wasn’t having it the week after due to staffing issues so would need to plan 2 weeks work in this PPA session ) taken away - it was a Friday too so she was supposed to be having that day to plan for lessons beginning on the Monday . It was taken away due to staffing issues and she was in tears - she had plans that weekend that she had to cancel so she could plan for the week ahead ( I didn’t work in that school , she’s a teacher friend ). I have also had PPA time taken away from me before and I also have never had a class that didn’t get upset at me not being in class and having a supply or a Ta cover . Usuall work that’s done during the cover whilst class teacher is out on PPA isn’t ‘important’ work - it’s a lot of filler work , or work that doesn’t go in books . A lot of children also get anxiety over their class teacher being out and children with SEN especially suffer with this .

I read about a school that decided to close at 1pm every Friday to allow teachers to all have their PPA time . They said that they made the time back with a slightly later finish time / slightly earlier start time and they found that behaviour improved massively. Fridays are usually the end of a long week and filled with behaviour issues and this reduced along with attendance improving . I know some schools around the area do Finish at 1/2 on a Friday and I wonder if this is the reason why .

It seems like it would really make sense !

Maybe even , as TAs don’t get PPA time as they don’t plan , they could offer a kind of after school club ( until normal pick up time ) where the TAs watched the children who’s parents couldn’t do an earlier pick up time .

Nope, we have lives and jobs. Fridays are normally spent working ridiculously hard to get everything tied of before the weekend so we can start Monday with a reasonably clean slate and not start the week in chaos.

The school day is only 6 hours as it is, meaning we often have to go back to work when the kids are in bed or get up at 5am (quietly so as not to wake the sods) and get a couple of hours work in before breakfast!

Teachers do work hard I know, but then so do lots of other professions and they don't get 6 weeks off in the summer, 2 weeks at easter, 2 weeks at Christmas and a few random weeks thrown in for half terms along with the inset days... actually come to think of it are you lot ever actually at work?! Teaching ain't that hard compared to some other professions (yes, I have 2 teachers, one headteacher and a retired headteacher in my immediate family so I feel reasonably qualified to make that statement).

I have been teaching 20 years. I get that paid that much because I work part time but still average 45 hours a week. That’s what makes it unsustainable, you can say lots of other people do that, but I don’t believe it’s healthy for anyone to be doing that. I’m exhausted , my family are miserable. As I’ve said, many other professions may feel the same , I would give sympathy to them , I’m not saying teaching is unique, I’m just giving my personal experience and saying that looking for solutions would be a good idea because fed up with working such long hours and barely being able to pay the bills. So while I think Fridays would be tricky, I think the OP is onto something to look outside the book for a solution.

Your attempt at critical thinking is laughable!
Not that it’s relevant, but I do have a job, I am self employed and so can be slightly flexible with the (very long) hours I work. Even if I didn’t have a job, some people in society actually offer to do things for the benefit of others, even if it inconveniences them in the process.

The irony of this post is not lost on me…

Yet children at private schools seem to manage it very well (they also have much longer holidays mitigate it…. oh wait)

At private school, isn’t it a lot more sport/ music etc in the longer days which I think would be a wonderful solution for date school if led by qualified coaches and funded properly

My ex went to boarding school and they had longer days. All the class work was done before lunch though. Afternoons were sports based.

My niece is in year 6 at a prep school. She does 5.5 hours of academic lessons a day and has approx 45mins to an hour of timetabled sport. The school day starts at 8 and finishes at 4.45. Then they have optional sports/enrichment clubs/prep after school until 6. 5 days a week (apart from weds afternoons which is matches) She copes fine. I imagine the younger years do slightly fewer academic lessons during the day (possibly not?) but they all finish at 4.45 at the earliest.

It wasn't a rhetorical question, it was a genuine one. I don't know why you think the answer is so obvious.

@Riversideandrelax Oh OK. No they don't. Teachers don't get paid overtime/given toil for any extra hours outside of the school day. Many hours unpaid.

@Thorpepark So don't understand why your kids need to go to breakfast club if you can be flexible with your hours?

Ok, thank you. I don't think that's right, at all.

No I didn't count 13 without half term in Feb or May

I said 6 in summer and 1 in October or 5 in summer and 2 October, that makes 7
2 at Christmas and 2 at Easter so add 4 that makes 11
then you can Feb and May half term which is another 2 making 13.

I didn't mention the Feb and May half terms as it was the other holidays I was disagreeing with.

Which bank holidays are you including? I can only see one that is not included in the holiday above, the early May bank holiday.

Every other week in pastoral meeting our head of year would have all the form tutors in the year group identify students with attendance below 95% then write, address and stuff envelopes home to parents about it.

I couldn't help thinking of the books I could have marked in that time.

Like I said, I have offered to take a breakfast club to help others that need it, regardless of whether I need it. I don’t understand why you can’t grasp this??

Of course not but teachers are paid a decent professional salary so I would expect them to work similar hours to any other professional (if not longer during term time, given they have the long holidays)

One of the big problems in education is we don't have enough teachers. Pay has to be part of that. I know locally that children are being taught by unqualified teachers and teachers who are teaching subjects they aren't qualified to teach and by supply teachers who come and go (obviously that is the nature of supply) so getting increased pay is about improving things for the children if it means they get enough qualified teachers.

@CassandraWebb I don’t disagree that teachers should work outside school hours, I just question if it is healthy for anyone , not just teachers to be working nearly 60 hour weeks. And let’s be honest the pay is fine but not sure it reflects that kind of work load. I don’t think anyone is at their best, and certainly anyone with a family is going to find it difficult to juggle. I think we should be thinking about any profession that requires that and what we can do to get the best of of a work force.

Good point. Perhaps it’s time for teachers to accept that what they’re earning is actually very competitive in relation to similarly skilled jobs in the market place and be a bit more positive about things, then it won’t scare so many off.

I don’t know the ins and outs but it seems rather unfair that a teacher with a very cushty job teaching amenable 5-10 year olds in one school that doesn’t ask any more of them above and beyond their usual classroom hours (no after school clubs etc) earns the same as someone who is being spat at, threatened and dodging chairs in another school. Perhaps a premium should be applied to the salary of those teachers who are battling the toughest conditions and it be taken from those who do the bare minimum.

If it's so competitive why are we struggling with retention and recruitment?

I don't see it as competitive, I'm not a teacher and never have been but I think it is a very demanding job. As a contrast GS is currently working his gap year as a pool lifeguard to save money for uni. He's work 50 hrs a week (Similar to teachers) and is making £650 a week, more than some teachers with less aggro and it took him a week to qualify not 4 years.

Because, as I said, perhaps it’s time for teachers to accept it and then it won’t scare so many potential teachers off before they even start. More positivity is needed. Those that are leaving are likely doing so because of bad behaviour, not their perceived low salaries. I doubt any money in the world would make them to put up with the disgraceful behaviour of so many children.

This is a ridiculous comparison, if he stayed being a lifeguard that’s all he would ever earn. He also doesn’t get a snazzy pension. A lifeguard is also likely to be seasonal work, even if he did want to make a career out of it, I doubt he’d get 50 hours a week all year round. Come on.

I don't think you understand what motivates some people, what makes them feel valued. I'm retired but used to recruit staff who worked in high stress situations, if I'd offered less money I'd have got less recruits, I'd still have got some but others wouldn't have felt the money justified the challenges.

I'm sure some leave because of behaviour on the other hand my neighbour has just handed in her notice and she was teaching those amenable 5 to 10 year olds. I also know a teacher who works in a PRU where behaviour is a very serious issue, she loves it.

Well he was trained by someone earning more money than him, senior lifeguard who runs courses for people who want to qualify. I understand he has been doing it for 30 years. I have no idea what he contributes to his pension but he's well paid and happy. More than you can say for all those teachers leaving their jobs.

It isn't seasonal where GS works, he already has work lined up for next Christmas and Easter when he will be on holiday from uni. He could earn a lot more if he wanted the hours.