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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder if addiction is a choice

677 replies

BarbaraAnnee · 17/06/2024 11:53

I am sorry if this sounds insensitive to some people but I just wondered what people thought of this. A relative of mine is an alcoholic and due to her being unfit, her parents have had to permanently look after her DD. I feel so bad for her and just wondered if she really loved her DD she would just stop drinking?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Pumpkinspicers · 18/06/2024 15:46

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.

BarbaraAnnee · 18/06/2024 15:46

So say a person takes heroin, the person knows they like it, I know I would bloody love it, you make a decision at that point to never do it again.

OP posts:
Pumpkinspicers · 18/06/2024 15:48

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This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.

BarbaraAnnee · 18/06/2024 15:48

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This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.

It is common sense

OP posts:
Pumpkinspicers · 18/06/2024 15:51

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BarbaraAnnee · 18/06/2024 15:51

Yes, I dont even need to click on your links because I know you are NOT an addict after one try. It is a choice to carry on at that point. I have said I know I would love heroin but I love my life, DH and children more which is why I will not go down that route, and to be honest, logically I know I wont get the same high as the first few times so what is the point.

OP posts:
KarenOH · 18/06/2024 15:52

BarbaraAnnee · 18/06/2024 15:51

Yes, I dont even need to click on your links because I know you are NOT an addict after one try. It is a choice to carry on at that point. I have said I know I would love heroin but I love my life, DH and children more which is why I will not go down that route, and to be honest, logically I know I wont get the same high as the first few times so what is the point.

Ah ok, you are more qualified than Yale. Amazing.

Addiction is now understood to be a brain disease. Whether it’s alcohol, prescription pain pills, nicotine, gambling, or something else, overcoming an addiction isn’t as simple as just stopping or exercising greater control over impulses.

That’s because addiction develops when the pleasure circuits in the brain get overwhelmed, in a way that can become chronic and sometimes even permanent. This is what’s at play when you hear about reward “systems” or “pathways” and the role of dopamine when it comes to addiction. But what does any of that really mean?

One of the most primitive parts of the brain, the reward system, developed as a way to reinforce behaviors we need to survive—such as eating. When we eat foods, the reward pathways activate a chemical called dopamine, which, in turn, releases a jolt of satisfaction. This encourages you to eat again in the future.
When a person develops an addiction to a substance, it’s because the brain has started to change. This happens because addictive substances trigger an outsized response when they reach the brain. Instead of a simple, pleasurable surge of dopamine, many drugs of abuse—such as opioids, cocaine, or nicotine—cause dopamine to flood the reward pathway, 10 times more than a natural reward.

The brain remembers this surge and associates it with the addictive substance. However, with chronic use of the substance, over time the brain’s circuits adapt and become less sensitive to dopamine. Achieving that pleasurable sensation becomes increasingly important, but at the same time, you build tolerance and need more and more of that substance to generate the level of high you crave.
Addiction can also cause problems with focus, memory, and learning, not to mention decision-making and judgement. Seeking drugs, therefore, is driven by habit—and not conscious, rational decisions.
Unfortunately, the belief that people with addictions are simply making bad choices pervades. Furthermore, the use of stigmatizing language, such as “junkie” and “addict” and getting “clean,” often creates barriers when it comes to accessing treatment. There’s also stigma that surrounds treatment methods, creating additional challenges.

Though treatment modalities differ based on an individual’s history and the particular addiction he or she has developed, medications can make all the difference. “A lot of people think that the goal of treatment for opioid use disorder, for example, is not taking any medication at all,” says David A. Fiellin, MD, a Yale Medicine primary care and addiction medicine specialist. “Research shows that medication-based treatments are the most effective treatment. Opioid use disorder is a medical condition just like depression, diabetes or hypertension, and as with those conditions, it is most effectively treated with a combination of medication and counseling.”

teen vaping, possibly unaware of the addictiveness of nicotine

Nicotine Addiction From Vaping Is a Bigger Problem Than Teens Realize

More teenagers are vaping, putting themselves at risk of becoming addicted to nicotine, a drug that can negatively affect an adolescent's growing brain.

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/vaping-nicotine-addiction

BarbaraAnnee · 18/06/2024 15:54

The brain remembers this surge and associates it with the addictive substance. However, with chronic use of the substance,

Proof is in the pudding

OP posts:
Marrta · 18/06/2024 15:56

KarenOH · 18/06/2024 15:52

Ah ok, you are more qualified than Yale. Amazing.

Addiction is now understood to be a brain disease. Whether it’s alcohol, prescription pain pills, nicotine, gambling, or something else, overcoming an addiction isn’t as simple as just stopping or exercising greater control over impulses.

That’s because addiction develops when the pleasure circuits in the brain get overwhelmed, in a way that can become chronic and sometimes even permanent. This is what’s at play when you hear about reward “systems” or “pathways” and the role of dopamine when it comes to addiction. But what does any of that really mean?

One of the most primitive parts of the brain, the reward system, developed as a way to reinforce behaviors we need to survive—such as eating. When we eat foods, the reward pathways activate a chemical called dopamine, which, in turn, releases a jolt of satisfaction. This encourages you to eat again in the future.
When a person develops an addiction to a substance, it’s because the brain has started to change. This happens because addictive substances trigger an outsized response when they reach the brain. Instead of a simple, pleasurable surge of dopamine, many drugs of abuse—such as opioids, cocaine, or nicotine—cause dopamine to flood the reward pathway, 10 times more than a natural reward.

The brain remembers this surge and associates it with the addictive substance. However, with chronic use of the substance, over time the brain’s circuits adapt and become less sensitive to dopamine. Achieving that pleasurable sensation becomes increasingly important, but at the same time, you build tolerance and need more and more of that substance to generate the level of high you crave.
Addiction can also cause problems with focus, memory, and learning, not to mention decision-making and judgement. Seeking drugs, therefore, is driven by habit—and not conscious, rational decisions.
Unfortunately, the belief that people with addictions are simply making bad choices pervades. Furthermore, the use of stigmatizing language, such as “junkie” and “addict” and getting “clean,” often creates barriers when it comes to accessing treatment. There’s also stigma that surrounds treatment methods, creating additional challenges.

Though treatment modalities differ based on an individual’s history and the particular addiction he or she has developed, medications can make all the difference. “A lot of people think that the goal of treatment for opioid use disorder, for example, is not taking any medication at all,” says David A. Fiellin, MD, a Yale Medicine primary care and addiction medicine specialist. “Research shows that medication-based treatments are the most effective treatment. Opioid use disorder is a medical condition just like depression, diabetes or hypertension, and as with those conditions, it is most effectively treated with a combination of medication and counseling.”

I had a gambler in my life and I'm not giving him that excuse

BarbaraAnnee · 18/06/2024 15:56

However, with chronic use of the substance, over time the brain’s circuits adapt and become less sensitive to dopamine.

The choice is to carry on, then you are in trouble..

OP posts:
Anonym00se · 18/06/2024 15:57

Janiie · 18/06/2024 15:43

What people suffer that from their first vodka? No, they don't, they choose to carry on and on and on and swig more and more .

It was in response to @BarbaraAnnee stating that she’d stopped taking pain tablets and asking if she was an addict, so your point isn’t pertinent to my response.

However, just to respond to your point, drinking is socially acceptable. It’s easy to see how people reach the point where they don’t recognise it’s a problem until it is. There are always threads on here with people saying “I drink a bottle of wine a night. Do I have a problem?” They don’t even realise it’s excessive because heavy drinking is unfortunately so normalised.

Now once they’re told that yes, they’re drinking far too much some will cut down or stop, and others will already be past the point where they can quit. Being in denial about the scale of the problem is usual in people with addictions.

My Mum, my brother, grandfather, all my Mum’s siblings and loads of their kids are alcoholics. I’m not. And that’s not due to any inherent morality or strength within me, it’s just down to pure fucking good luck. I am beyond grateful that I dodged that particular genetic bullet.

BarbaraAnnee · 18/06/2024 15:58

@Anonym00se
However, with chronic use of the substance, over time the brain’s circuits adapt and become less sensitive to dopamine.

How do you explain that?

OP posts:
Blushingm · 18/06/2024 16:00

My DM died of alcoholism - my brother hanged himself but I suspect (and considering his liver was twice normal weight) was also alcohol dependent. I drink but I'm terrified there my be a genetic factor

BarbaraAnnee · 18/06/2024 16:01

Blushingm · 18/06/2024 16:00

My DM died of alcoholism - my brother hanged himself but I suspect (and considering his liver was twice normal weight) was also alcohol dependent. I drink but I'm terrified there my be a genetic factor

I know I have an addictive personality, I could easily drink a bottle of wine per night but it is good that you have that insight, I do too, If I was drinking too much I would address it, and so would you

OP posts:
KimberleyClark · 18/06/2024 16:03

I think it’s probably easier to get addicted to nicotine through vaping as it will be a more pleasant experience the first time you do it. Most people don’t particularly enjoy their first cigarette and man6 will just not bother to do it again but some keep on with for various reasons, wanting to look cool to their friends etc, until they are addicted.

BarbaraAnnee · 18/06/2024 16:27

lovelysunshine22 · 18/06/2024 15:34

I would say that its a mental health issue to begin with but I don't agree that its 100% illness! I was addicted to a substance for nearly 8 years and mental health issues caused by trauma are what caused me to become addicted in the first place! However it was my choice whether i just carried on with the addiction or got clean and sorted my life out! I have been clean for years now and have no respect for those that choose to remain addicted over their children, families etc! They are not helpless in the outcome unlike a real illness such as cancer, they can change things if they choose to!!!

I love this,

And because you accept responsibility for your actions and agree that there was an underlying cause, you have managed to stay off it.

OP posts:
Surlyburd · 18/06/2024 16:27

Having been with an addict, i think the addiction is not a choice, but the behaviours are.
I mean, the lying, trauma and gaslighting that addicts put you through are sometimes choices. You can love someone to the ends of the earth, but they cant/wont change until they hit their rock bottom.
Please look after your own mental health.
Alcoholism is usually routed in trauma or mental health issues and unfortunately , unless these are treated it cant get better.

Fritatayay · 18/06/2024 17:02

@Surlyburd it's manipulative behaviour, but it's driven by the need to use again and by shame. I've worked in SS and people will lie and lie, even when there is a court mandated drug test with a positive result.
This is why the 'approach' of the OP (Shame/ blame) will never work. Shame will never work because it feeds into their negative self worth, which is already at rock bottom. Lecturing and belittling is the quickest way to get addicts to use and relapse. The OP would frankly be shit at trying to engage addicts.
You need to empower them, you need to show some bloody compassion and give validation about the crap things which have happened to them. That's very different to enabling. It's just having some emotional intelligence.
Anyone who has ever lost weight has probably done so at a point in their life when they were happiest. There's no point trying to beat people down and shame them. Ever been shamed? Do you feel like running away and hiding afterwards? Yes. Do you feel like getting back out there and trying something new and scary? No.

BarbaraAnnee · 18/06/2024 17:15

Fritatayay · 18/06/2024 17:02

@Surlyburd it's manipulative behaviour, but it's driven by the need to use again and by shame. I've worked in SS and people will lie and lie, even when there is a court mandated drug test with a positive result.
This is why the 'approach' of the OP (Shame/ blame) will never work. Shame will never work because it feeds into their negative self worth, which is already at rock bottom. Lecturing and belittling is the quickest way to get addicts to use and relapse. The OP would frankly be shit at trying to engage addicts.
You need to empower them, you need to show some bloody compassion and give validation about the crap things which have happened to them. That's very different to enabling. It's just having some emotional intelligence.
Anyone who has ever lost weight has probably done so at a point in their life when they were happiest. There's no point trying to beat people down and shame them. Ever been shamed? Do you feel like running away and hiding afterwards? Yes. Do you feel like getting back out there and trying something new and scary? No.

The time I have lost weight I was at my most unhappiest. I lost so much weight after my second baby.

OP posts:
BarbaraAnnee · 18/06/2024 17:18

Fritatayay · 18/06/2024 17:02

@Surlyburd it's manipulative behaviour, but it's driven by the need to use again and by shame. I've worked in SS and people will lie and lie, even when there is a court mandated drug test with a positive result.
This is why the 'approach' of the OP (Shame/ blame) will never work. Shame will never work because it feeds into their negative self worth, which is already at rock bottom. Lecturing and belittling is the quickest way to get addicts to use and relapse. The OP would frankly be shit at trying to engage addicts.
You need to empower them, you need to show some bloody compassion and give validation about the crap things which have happened to them. That's very different to enabling. It's just having some emotional intelligence.
Anyone who has ever lost weight has probably done so at a point in their life when they were happiest. There's no point trying to beat people down and shame them. Ever been shamed? Do you feel like running away and hiding afterwards? Yes. Do you feel like getting back out there and trying something new and scary? No.

I am not saying that they would benefit frim my approach and obviously wouldn't treat them that way face to face. That still doesn't take the reality of it away.

OP posts:
Opinionwontchangeluv · 18/06/2024 17:21

It's a choice at the start, like it's a choice to smoke crack but then addiction comes in and it's hard to get off it. Is it the person's fault? Well yes but humans make mistakes

Opinionwontchangeluv · 18/06/2024 17:22

DaisyChain505 · 17/06/2024 12:05

I think there’s alot of factors when it comes to addiction.

Childhood
Upbringing
Past trauma
Genetics
Where you live
Mental health

and the list goes on. People don’t wake up and say hey i think I’ll ruin my life and start taking heroin today. People make choices because of what they’ve been through, what they’ve witnessed and see as normal or because they feel or think a certain way due to many aspects and they think things like drink or drugs will take that pain away. It’s not simple.

This is a good way to put it

Anonym00se · 18/06/2024 17:24

BarbaraAnnee · 18/06/2024 15:58

@Anonym00se
However, with chronic use of the substance, over time the brain’s circuits adapt and become less sensitive to dopamine.

How do you explain that?

I’m not entirely sure of your point but the answer is that the dopamine receptors are shut down in the brains of addicts, in response to the dopamine floods they’ve received from using. So they increase their usage to achieve the same outcome.

But dopamine hits are not the only factor in increasing use. If you look at codeine for example, a lot of people don’t get a buzz from it at all. That’s why the warning is “If this causes drowsiness, do not drive…” Not a blanket “Do not drive”. But even the patients who don’t get a high from it will still find that it stops working as well if they use it regularly and will need to up their usage to control their pain. Then they’ll get bad headaches when they stop taking it, so they’ll take more pills to ease the headache, not understanding that it’s the drug withdrawal that’s causing the headache. They’re not chasing a high, they’re trying to control their pain.

Fritatayay · 18/06/2024 17:32

Ffs no one ever just decides to smile crack the usual cycle is something like
Unhappy person
Smoke fags occasionally
Try first alcoholic drink
Smoke weed at partys
Go to get weed but dealer only has Ket
Do ket
Get raped at dealers house
Drink/ do drugs to block out experience
Lose focus at work/ school
Lose job/ education
Different friends/ social circles who are around in the day
Find it difficult to stay sober in the day
More degradation/ trauma
Lose connection with anyone not using
Use crack
Use anything when under influence
Family/ friends dump you
Start offending
Prison

Hard to see what of this was a choice.