To wonder if addiction is a choice

[BarbaraAnnee]

I am sorry if this sounds insensitive to some people but I just wondered what people thought of this. A relative of mine is an alcoholic and due to her being unfit, her parents have had to permanently look after her DD. I feel so bad for her and just wondered if she really loved her DD she would just stop drinking?

@Fritatayay why are you so determined that all addicts are being let down by inadequate mental health support? Why can you not see that it really is not that simple? Why can’t you accept that many addicts just don’t want to get better?

The idea that there is far more support for people who overeat - what’s the evidence supporting this?

Are you forgetting that everyone has to eat? So abstinence is impossible? Moderation more difficult?

What about the fact that people overeating and being overweight is not going to cause significant emotional damage to their loved ones? There will be some extremes, yes, but it doesn’t cause neglect and trauma in the same way as having a parent with alcoholism or drug addiction does, does it?

It’s not the same as drug taking or drinking alcohol, is it?

Your defence of addicts is quite tiring. You seem to think every single one of them is an innocent victim.

I remember one day it got so so intense, I walked out of the door and just ran, and ran, just to feel something else for 5 minutes. If I hadn't persisted to get help (it wasnt easy, like I said I called them daily). I could have picked up the wine but I didnt. I wanted to feel better for myself and my children and I never thought I would at the time, I was terrified.

I also remember the Samaritans blocked my number as apparently I called them too much. I was so desperate for help. There is help out there, you just have to want it

In my case, the choice to start drinking was made for me. At the age of 2, I had a glass of wine with Sunday lunch. I was drinking every week from then on. By the age of 13, with my parents knowledge and blessing, I was drinking a sherry, or gin, with my lunch (or two, sometimes three). Drinking in my house began at 9.30am'ish, and went until you went to bed - with a nightcap. I have severe alcoholism on both sides of my family for at least three generations - including my father who died of alcohol related cancer. Every single member of my family has a complicated and issue ridden relationship with alcohol.

I have made a choice. To not drink anymore. I am currently white knuckling it through the first 100 days. When I reached out for help to my GP, as we are exhorted to do, in stiff tones of disapproval, they referred me to a website. That was it. Thankfully I have my amazing husband, children, brother in law, and some good friends for support. And to keep me honest!

This is after my children had an actively alcoholic mother for all their childhood. They were well loved, well cared for, but it has had one hell of an impact, which is the source of my deepest grief and guilt in life.

I could not, however, have just 'chosen not to drink' until I did. God knows I tried, so bloody, bloody often, adding to my grief, despair, guilt, and shame. I had to come to that point at a time and a place where it was not only possible, it was imperative, and no longer possible to evade.

This is the hardest thing I've ever done. If you can drink without being addicted to this drug, which, after all, is pretty much designed to be addictive, you are fortunate enough not to be able to have a visceral understanding of the tentacles of addiction keeping you entrapped - and how much society is set up in its attitudes and practises towards alcohol, in normalising it and keeping you there.

Sorry for how long that was.

Oh, and trauma? Why, yes. Sexually abused by my grandfather, assaulted by a male nurse while in ICU as a teenager, pursued relentlessly by another family member from when I was 12 to 19, and that's just the sodding highlights- along with seeing a plane crash, and a man walk from it on fire, and die when I was four - and told not to tell my mother because it would upset her. And that's just the effing fucking highlights.

This thread has shown me that there really is a long way to do in improving the level of ignorance about mental health conditions amongst the general population.

We've got @NoseNothing who doesn't understand how eating disorders work and why the recovery rate from ED is so low.

And @BarbaraAnnee who thinks everyone could avoid addiction if they only had her strength of character.

As a recovered addict and alcoholic my solidarity and love goes out to @mbosnz and everyone else on this thread who have experienced the hellish disease of addiction, and especially to those of us in recovery. It's an incredibly hard thing, to recover from addiction, and it takes strength, courage and humility of the sort that those who've never been there could never understand. Sisters you rock xx

I don't understand the point you are trying to make. No, you do not know what trauma a person might have gone through. Someone may have a privileged life on the face of it but have experienced major trauma. I'm saying a little bit of empathy might not go amiss. Rather than the person upthread who said everyone has had trauma so just deal with it.

There is help out there, you just have to want it

That is a bloody awful thing to say and highlights how little understanding you have OP.

Do you really have no insight into how someone may be afraid to call in help?

Also, phrases like that are part of the reasons some addicts don't ask for help - because people who think like that will judge them as weak when addiction is their body physically demanding something.

FWIW I've watched someone who was an active alcoholic for 20 years get themselves sober and my god it's been a battle for them. The amount of trauma that has resurfaced during recovery could so easily push them back to drinking because it's a reliable way for them to forget the bad things.

As an example for you, imagine being a person whose childhood was spent being removed from your addict/abusive parents and put into care and back again. Then when you have a baby of your own, you are struggling with your mental health.
Do you really think that person is going to trust the health visitor to help her and not involve social services? Because I'd bet she'd be very afraid she may lose her child - that's the only interaction with a social worker she's ever had.
So instead she'll suffer, and try and find ways to cope because she knows her baby needs her.
Maybe wine helps - and how bad can it be considering how socially acceptable it is to have a glass of wine or 2?
I think it's really easy to see how it could move from that to a bottle and become a problem, and not at any point would that woman have made the choice to become n alcoholic.

@CantDealwithChristmas eh? When have I posted about ED? I spoke about overeating & obesity in response to another post who tried to say people who eat too much are the same as alcoholics. I disagreed. At no point did I say anything about EDs? Or are you saying everyone who overeats has an eating disorder?

Anyway, I don’t judge all addicts. I really don’t. But I know my own mother and I know what my childhood and life has been like because of her drinking. I know the choices she has made such as driving me to school while drunk, turning up to parents evenings drunk, getting completely wasted while taking me on a long haul flight, etc WERE choices. She didn’t choose to be an alcoholic but she chose many many times to put me in danger and cause repeated trauma, shame and embarrassment. I couldn’t give a shit if anyone thinks I’m a terrible person for hating her as a result. My sympathy for her ran out a long time ago.

Re counselling to find out why the alcoholic/addict become so, how does anyone know for certain what the reasons are?
My alcoholic father blamed everyone and everything, most of all my mother who worked desperately hard to keep the show on the road. However, I don’t think she was to blame though she did enable him I suppose.
All the family did - we were scared of him.

Also, does finding out the reasons mean alcoholics and addicts stop drinking/using?

I don't blame you at all NoseNothing. Not one iota. You have every right to your feelings, especially after having been endangered and shamed like that. You are in no way a horrible person for that.

I've made it very clear to my girls, that they have the right to their pain and hanger for any and all hurt I've caused them. It's very much a huge part of my ability to white knuckle it thus far (94 days, but who's counting, lol?) that I really don't want to let them down yet again. For example, last night we went and had a meal in our favourite pub to celebrate the end of exams. Was it hard? Yes. Was it worth it? Yes. To all be present, and enjoy the night out, having a laugh, sharing jokes, enjoying the food. . . priceless.

What I'm doing now doesn't negate what has been done in the past. And even though they are generous, compassionate and forgiving, I know that there will be times when they are righteously angry and hurting, and I have more than earned that.

every addict I know blames everybody but themselves and refuses help. They dont want it. Alcohol/drugs could have easily been my escape from the depths of despair I was in, had I not been a mum or who knows what I would have done to get me through. Like I said, I called Samaritans/crisis team to the point that they was expecting my daily call, I cried and cried endlessly and never ever imagined I would get better.

I wonder if it's partly that alcohol feels better to some people. I don't really enjoy it that much, and I couldn't use it more if I wanted to

Opioids??

I actually hate feeling drunk but a glass of wine or 2 is very relaxing. Could I do it ever day? absolutely? Do I?....no

I’m going to take this tiny quote from mbosnz

This is after my children had an actively alcoholic mother for all their childhood. They were well loved, well cared for, but it has had one hell of an impact, which is the source of my deepest grief and guilt in life.

The fact that you exclude and deprioritize her children is utterly despicable, and the place in your illness from whence it comes is very ugly indeed.

We can accept addiction as a disease, accept that people don’t make the choice to continue, accept that they need levels of emotional support they will never be in a position to offer to others; accept that it’s hard. But what you have either ignored, forgotten, or mostly disagree with is: it’s not All about them.
It does seem that you take people diverting their own emotional resources away from the addict as an outrage that they should feel shame about.

You should reread every single post here looking out for the signs of FOG: fear obligation and guilt. No-one is obligated to give you praise, validation or applause for your self assigned strength, courage and humility of the sort that those who've never been there could never understand

@Anonym00se sorry for what your mother endured but as I keep on saying we've all endured challenges and trauma to some degree. You access help and counselling. To say 'it's because horrible things happened to me' is indeed a cop out and that is not in any way to minimise what she went through.

Over drinkers, over eaters, drug takers whatever always have a reason , lots of reasons but get very sketchy when it comes to solutions, which there are plenty of.

And thank you so much @CantDealwithChristmas your kind and supportive words mean so much.

@BarbaraAnnee , the choice and action to put wine in my gob was/is mine alone. The addiction and trauma are/were not. The addiction and trauma impacts the choice making, making it a great deal harder than it is for many people to simply 'choose not to'. Good on you for your struggles, and overcoming them, too, by the way.

It's really not a case of 'well I managed because of x, y, and z, therefore anybody else should be able to manage it too'. It is a very individual situation, because everyone's histories, and resources, including mental, physical, environmental and societal, are different.

I think affiction is a mental illness and as such all of us can have addictive tendencies to some extent or another, its just that different people are addicted to different things. For some, it is drink/drugs, for some it is shopping/gambling, for some it is running/exercise, for some it is dieting, for some it is gaming/apps, for some it is scrolling mumsnet or Instagram...

What are you addicted to @BarbaraAnnee ? Could you quit cold turkey looking at social media? Eating UPFs? Drinking coffee? Chocolate? Exercise? Could you give up your phone? Would you give your phone to a friend for a week and see how many times you want it/need it/look for it/feel lost without it or would you just get it back from that friend again before the week was up? Yes, you might feel like you need that phone to function, you can't connect with friends without it, you need it to get you up in the morning or get through the day, but that is how an alcoholic views alcohol too.

Jesus Christ.

It is an illness but not in the same category as cancer for example. It is an illness with a whopping great cure and masses of help available - some people do choose to stay poorly, I say this with masses of experience of someone who's an alcoholic

So sorry op but well done for seeking help .

I love my morning coffee but it doesn't affect my personality. Being drunk and taking drugs does? how is it even compatible? you are clutching at straws

Are you saying everybody is addicted to something?

'For example, last night we went and had a meal in our favourite pub to celebrate the end of exams.'

I couldn't imagine taking an alcoholic to my favourite pub. Wouldn't afternoon tea in a posh cafe or similar have been preferable? Well done though but surely avoiding pubs might make things a little easier at this early stage.